Take demotion offered, challenge process, resign - what would you do?

[PurplePenguin314]

DP unexpectedly had a protected conversation at work with his line manager - no advance warning this was going to happen. He had been put on an informal support plan and all of the targets were met, which his line manager acknowledged. Despite this, DP has been told he can either face capability or accept a much more junior role. DP feels he has been treated unfairly.

Would you challenge the process if you felt you were being treated unfairly, but risk losing your job altogether and have to declare capability proceedings in future job applications? Or would you take demotion or resign?

Finding a new job won't be easy for DP, as there aren't many at the same level round where we live.

If you've experienced capability proceedings at work, what was the outcome and have you had success in finding a new job?

I wouldn't accept a demotion that is so very junior as you've described. Depending on what the union advises and the fact the PIP was 'informal' I suspect he has a case for unfair or constructive dismissal.

Thanks for sharing your experience, which must have been so stressful. I hope you're much happier in your new job.

DP's line manager is new to the job and it very much feels like he's keen to show he can "get things done" and wants to flex his muscles.

There are sooooo many things DP could raise grievances about, but hasn't done for fear of the impact on his job.

No promotion during that time.

@purplepenguin314Has you DH gone through the PIP process documentation? There should be an informal process, where help , support and guidance are given to allow the employee to meet employment targets and if this does not work and there is no improvement then a formal stage should be entered. Only if the performance issues are substantial should a formal PIP begin within an informal process taking place. It sounds as if your DH has not gone through a formal process and if this is the case then his employers have been previous in their decision to demote him.

If DP takes the demotion, it'll be 20+ years of his career down the pan and it'll be impossible to get a job at a similar level again.

That answers your question then.

I'd definitely speak to ACAS and I suspect they'll advise him to raise a grievance in the first instance.
In my experience, putting someone on a performance plan after that length of time in a role is a clear hint they're trying to force him out.
If so, be aware they are likely to know the system so will purposely reply too late to grievances to time bar the claim going to tribunal and similar. Make sure you hit all dates ACAS advise regardless of what the company are doing.

He needs to think about what he wants - would he want to stay there after this?

Either way I'd be looking for another job asap

The plan was called an informal support plan, but no support was given. If they're still unhappy with DP, despite meeting the informal support plan's targets, I don't know why it wasn't escalated to a formal PIP before the threat of capability/demotion.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, very much feels like they want to force DP out.

DP doesn't know what he wants to do at the moment. If he accepts the demotion, his career is screwed. If he goes down capability or construction dismissal route, his career is screwed. Just trying to work out what is the least career damaging route to take.

I lost a job last year through a PIP out of nowhere. Working again now. Less money but zero stress. I'm trying to make the best of it, but dunt see me doing management jobs again. In an abstract way I hate work now, but my current job is pleasant enough

So my advice would be for you and DH to decide what your preferred outcome of this process is. Does he want to leave on a settlement agreement, try and keep his current role or accept the demotion. What you decide will impact the actions you should take. Has anything changed recently with your DH employer? New boss or long standing? Was it just a 121 meeting with his boss or was anyone else involved? Has there ever been any other discussion with your DH about performance concerns? Your DH has the option of raising a grievance against the process as it would appear a formal PIP process has not been followed. He could force the formal aspect of the PIP to be conducted but that is perhaps just kicking the can down the road. You mentioned your DH has a disability, so this is something which may be worth pursuing with occupational health
( is the employer a sizeable organisation) to see if reasonable adjustments are appropriate. Is your DH boss pursuing his own agenda or HR involved? I just wonder if this is a decision your DH boss has made in isolation, hence no formal PIP.

However, it seems that your DH boss has decided he wants to remove him from the business, so your DH best bet may be to negotiate hard for a good settlement offer and if process has not been followed/completed then that is a good bargaining point. His other option is to agree to the demotion on a trial basis with a settlement agreed if he does not like the new role, this could buy time to look for another role. Failure to follow process is normal why employers loose at employment tribunals.

Refuse the demotion. Raise a grievance.
If they want him out, they’ll have to fire him and it will be unfair dismissal. Then you go to tribunal.

In the meantime, get looking for a job! He needs to get out there.

I know of someone who took a lower grade role and kept the salary scale, if capped at the existing salary. This was due to managing health/disability and was a voluntary change, moving from ft to pt. However the new role was subsequently made redundant so would suggest your dp looks around anyway if he accepts it.

if he was on a PIP were the targets he met personal or the team’s. If the latter was his contribution commensurate with his grade or more basic?

This

it doesn’t sound like a “protected conversation” really

It might be that there won't really be any other choice but to accept the demotion, but what employer would employ him for a similar role he's doing now once he's been demoted? I assume he can only realistically expect to find another junior role once he's been demoted. If he resigns, at least you can come up with some reason for resigning I suppose, but then there's the big risk of not being able to find a new job at all!

DP's targets were personal ones.

If he’s not already in a union then it’s too late. They won’t acceptable casework from new members

DP was told it was a protected conversation. I'd never even heard of such a thing before now. Can you let me know why you don't think it sounds like a protected conversation?

DP has a new line manager, who joined about six months ago. DP doesn't think the correct procedures were followed, i.e. being put on an informal support plan but no support given, then straight to either capability or demolition, so may well raise a grievance about that.

Yes, we need to decide what our preferred outcome would be, but it's hard to know what's best.

Because that is precursor to making someone an offer to leave. That can be protected so that the employee can’t disclose it in legal claims. However an employer can’t just dress up performance discussions/suggestions of demotion and expect protection.

in other words it’s not a protected conversation just because they say it is.

www.acas.org.uk/settlement-agreements/discussing-and-negotiating-an-offer

I think I’d personally be looking for a settlement offer with an agreed reference.

That protects his ability to look for a similar level role, but it does depend on your finances and how quickly he could find something else even if it’s not quite right.

Does he have the kind of role he could do freelance / on a consultancy basis?

Protected conversation and they are not offering a settlement amount ?? I work in HR and I would not
take the junior position. Does he have a PILON clause in his contract ?

It doesn’t sound like this has been handled properly at all, which may play to DH’s advantage.
if it was a formal PiP it should have been documented with clear targets, success criteria and dates.
he should have had, in writing, notification that he was in a PiP and what the consequences would be if not passed.
I agree with PP that a protected conversation is for them to make a settlement offer and they should follow this in writing if you are interested in accepting, Most organisations will pay for you to have this checked by a lawyer.
DO NOT accept the demotion.
He should consult his union and can also request a further protected conversation where he can ask what the offer is that they’re putting in the table. He doesn’t have to accept this and can take time to consider/negotiate.

DP's work can't be done on a freelance or consultancy basis unfortunately, so striking out on his own isn't an option. I do wonder about a career change, but then there'd be years with no or low income.

DP doesn't want to take the junior role, but if he doesn't, then the risk is that he's potentially out of work for a long time.

What would HR think of a candidate applying for a job who has either had a demotion or been through capability? Would I be right in thinking they wouldn't go near them with a barge pole unless they're really desperate?

What's a PILON clause?

The informal support plan has targets and dates. Nothing about consequences of the targets weren't met.

Would you expect to be informed in advance that a protected conversation is going to take place in a meeting?