Racist incident - protocol

[Wonderbug81]

I witnessed a racist incident today at work. The person involved is one of the most senior people in the company and they displayed racist behaviour towards someone more junior. The racism was also indirectly related to me as I'm the same race.

I was too shocked in the moment to say anything but want to raise a complaint with HR. I don't know how seriously they'll take it as the senior person oversees the HR team indirectly too! I'm also therefore concerned about being treated differently after I raise it.

Any advice on how I manage this e.g. I assume I should keep records, follow up conversations in writing over email etc? Feeling a bit of out of my depth.

No. This is MN and as we might have predicted, the OP was almost knocked over by the rush of the usual suspects who confuse rude or xenophobic behaviour with racism and who think the best example they can give of racism is someone calling the King a white fella. The kind of people who use the phrase ‘reverse racism’.

These are not the people to determine if the OP’s experienced racism or if the conduct was whatever on earth you mean by ‘racist enough’.

Good luck OP. I hope your concern is taken seriously.

Thanks for clarifying your thought process @RedTagAlan.

Shame you missed the point of the OP because the mention of "racism" scrambled your wee head.

"if OP had heard a sexist remark about women would you be begging to hear what it was so you can decide if it was offensive?"

Yes. Of course. I would be asking though not begging. That would be the most basic fact finding, rather than blindly agreeing.

Today, a lot is made of the " division" in todays society. And without doubt, a contributing factor that is rage bait press. Esp on the right.

Read the headline, feel rage. Or at the minimum, nod in agreement.

Read the story, and it's often a case of wow, why are these folk getting so wound up. Gammons frothing at the mouth at ragebait, and I often want to know why ? What are the actual details of the story ?

So yes, I want to learn what people are considering racist, or sexist, ageist, ablist etc. Because I might not agree, maybe because it is frivolous, or maybe it's because I am ignorant of it.

The same with anything that has a subjective aspect to it.

I think that is a bit like doing due diligence.

Example. I used the word " gammon" above. Is that now considered offensive ? I don't know. I think some people do, but is that the majority, or a fringe ?

No scrambled wee heid here. See my post above to DancingNot Drowning

Why am I not surprised you'd want a victim of sexism in the workplace to explain herself to you, a stranger on the internet, first?🙄

My 40 year old stepdaughter daughter thinks calling a black person black is racist. Absolutely insane but she really believes this.

Put it this way. I am firmly in the against racism camp. But sometimes, when there is a call to gather the tribe to do a hunt, I might ask, is this a tribal matter ?

And I would hope someone would super quick, say yup, this person said XYZ to that person.

To reply to what you said. Quote :" Why am I not surprised you'd want a victim of sexism in the workplace to explain herself to you, a stranger on the internet, first?"

I was only asking for a bit more information, not for anyone to explain themselves. So yes, I would want to confirm that the victim of sexism, was a victim of sexism.

There was a thread here recently where a poster was complaining of harassment by a " creepy guy" who stood outside his house beside a co-op shop, saying hello as she went past". That was a lively discussion to read.

Was she being harassed ? The collective was split. Not many in the tribe joined the hunt. Many questioned if the hunt was really needed.

If my 13 year old DD comes home from school today, and says the teacher said something racist or sexist, my first reaction would be to comfort her and ask her what was said. I certainly would not dismiss what she says, or grab the pitchfork.

I would ask what was said.

And yes, we are all strangers on the internet. So there is no harm in asking is there ?

Put it this way...
The thread is not about you.

I totally get that you think you're in the against racism camp, that's a good thing. Keep striving for that. I can see that it's important to you to be viewed in that way. I've no idea what you're banging on about with the Co-Op, teachers, imaginary(?) children, pitchforks, tribes, hunters and creeps though.

Isms rarely travel alone. Racism, sexism, ableism, Antisemetism, sectarianism. Where one exists, another isn't far behind.

As you've demonstrated.

She doesn’t need to share the details and your examples aren’t good ones.

There are a number of misconceptions here. I would guess you have no personal experience of racism. For example, absolutely nobody would object to you describing a Nigerian as black.

@RedTagAlan

So you need details from the OP in order to judge if, in your words, the remark was ‘racist enough ?’

Racist enough? Seriously? You think that some levels of racism are ok and that you a stranger on the internet would be the judge (rather than the actual victim) of whether the remark crosses your line between acceptable racism and non acceptable racism? What even is acceptable racism?

Where have I made this thread about me ? I asked for details on what the racist incident was. I am trying to explain why I asked.

Quote: "I totally get that you think you're in the against racism camp,"

Quite a statement.

You think I think that, and you think you know what I think ?

I need to think about that.

As a matter of interest, if after I have thought about it, and I reason that I don't think I agree with what you think, that you know what I think, will you think about why I think that ?

Personally, I think it's ok to ask for a bit more background on a topic. And I don't think I am in the wrong for thinking that.

You think I think that, and you think you know what I think ?
I need to think about that.
As a matter of interest, if after I have thought about it, and I reason that I don't think I agree with what you think, that you know what I think, will you think about why I think that ?
Personally, I think it's ok

And you think you haven't made it all about you. Bless.

All that thinking you do. But not a thought/think/thunk for the OP who was there and actually knows what happened. You don't know what happened. You weren't there. Your thoughts on the matter don't matter. You don't matter.I've enjoyed your contribution though.

Really interesting.

You are spot on, I do not know what happened.

It is usually good to have a little info about what happened before jumping in with both feet. though. At least I think so.

But @RedTagAlan nobody is asking you to ‘jump in with both feet’. You’re not an authority of any kind and the OP hasn’t asked anyone to judge her experience. She’s asked for advice about what to do next.

It says a lot about you that you immediately decided it was down to you to judge whether OP had experienced racism. Where did you even get the idea that people’s bad experiences have to be interrogated, and by you?

I would not be reliant on other staff members to come forward or even the direct victim so go ahead with this in mind.

I find that people mysteriously become deaf and won't support you no matter how much they blather on about what a great person they are. People come to work to get paid, they won't jeopardise that over a situation they will not be able to empathise with and will just protect their own interests.

From my own experiences, the company will go in protection mode and HR are not your friends. They will logically look at who they can afford to get rid of, that won't damage their profits. Now it might be that this man has a target on his head and your complaint is the straw that broke the camels back (which is likely if he's making racist comments so openly) or he is integral to the company, much more so then you and your colleague and you'll find that you both will be on the fast track out. I think you really need to understand your office culture to predict the outcome.

Good luck!

I was curious that's all. Someone says they experienced racism but are unsure how to take it forward, I wonder what the racism was.

@RedTagAlan you didn’t ‘just wonder what the racism was’ you wanted to judge a stranger, to decide if the incident was ‘racist enough’ to be serious. That is exactly the same as someone telling you they have been sexually assaulted and you asking for more information so you can decide if they have been sexually assaulted enough.

Absolutely. There are various incidents (not racist) where this man has displayed bad behaviour.

There is a cultural problem within the company and at this point, I have one eye on the door anyway. But for however long I stay, i want to be comfortable enough to know that someone will think twice about behaving like this.

Thank you for your well-reasoned points even if they're being ignored! RedTagAlan has of course made it about themselves (literally admits they were 'just curious what the racism was') and has decided they're judge and jury.

They don't seem to understand that it could be outing or that it could be upsetting to keep having to focus on it.

They also seem incapable of comprehending a post which clearly stated I was looking for advice on the process of what to do next, not whether I should do anything!

It is pretty depressing that the OP can't come on these boards to seek advice on how to report her experience of racism without people piling on wanting to debate the validity of that experience.

Agreed. And yet almost not surprising with the way MN is now.

Totally agree.

I’m sorry OP, if it’s any consolation I believe a lot of these posters have seen your thread on active and responded, rather than being frequent posters on the work topic with HR/employment law experience.

I hope the reactions on this thread haven’t put you off reporting to your workplace in fear of a similar reaction.

Thank you so much. I've been around the block enough to know this is the sad reality. Partly why it's so important to speak up.