Racist incident - protocol

[Wonderbug81]

I witnessed a racist incident today at work. The person involved is one of the most senior people in the company and they displayed racist behaviour towards someone more junior. The racism was also indirectly related to me as I'm the same race.

I was too shocked in the moment to say anything but want to raise a complaint with HR. I don't know how seriously they'll take it as the senior person oversees the HR team indirectly too! I'm also therefore concerned about being treated differently after I raise it.

Any advice on how I manage this e.g. I assume I should keep records, follow up conversations in writing over email etc? Feeling a bit of out of my depth.

I don’t think I’ve seen a poster accuse anyone of racism? We don’t know the people involved so how can we accuse them?

I’m more interested in the people trying to deny it was definitely racist when they couldn’t possibly know.

This!

The only person I see wanting to be offended is you.

I've explained why I can't share more details and I've also given context about the power dynamic and the fact that derogatory behaviour/language was used.

My OP clearly states I'm looking for advice on process and escalation.

Exactly. OP is of that race and found it racist. I mean even if she wasn't I'd know if something was racist even if it wasn't against my race. I think. I hope.

I disagree with this bit. " It's very telling that you are so eager to dismiss her concerns as "not really racist" and to suggest that she just "wants to be offended". That says far more about you than it says about the OP or her workplace.

Racism is not really binary. It is a bit fuzzy around the edges, and even where the edge of that fuzziness is , is open to definition by different folk.

Take Dianne Abbot MP for example. Suspended by the Labour Party for comments on racism.

When I saw that I was shocked. When it comes to racism, Diane is someone I will always listen to. It is something she defo knows about.

Then, when I saw what she had said, I thought how on earth is that racist ?

But enough people in the party thought it was racist, and suspended her.

I would use that as evidence that racism is not binary.

I have a lot of respect for Diane. Except for the school thing. She did drop a few notches on my respect-o-meter over that.

An unpleasant comment and one you didn't need to make. The OP has made clear that the person to whom the comment was made reacted in a way that shower tge comment was racist.

My advice is be very careful. However progressive your organisation may claim to be, it is invariably the junior party who comes off worst in these scenarios. That’s not necessarily because of racism, but because management tend not to like having their judgment questioned over appointment of that person. The more valuable they are to the organization, the tougher they will be on the details of any complaint you make.

This may not be fair, but it is reality.

Also HR are not there to help you. They are there to manage any possible liability to the organization, so bear that in mind when you engage with them. It’s a mistake to imagine they are impartial. They are not.

Do you want to be identified? What about the other person?
Would you report it anonymously?
What outcome would you like? (I’m local authority and all that happened was the perpetrator had to say sorry to the person they’d been making remarks about). Which is why I’d say be careful that’s all.
I know you shouldn’t have to put up with it, but you might need a thick skin to proceed with a grievance.

HR are there for the employer’s benefit, they are not on the side of employees generally.

There are some circumstances which may be nuanced and subject to interpretation. Others are extremely clear cut.

The OP was clear that the incident in question was racist, and her question was about how to report it. It will be for her employer to investigate the matter appropriately in order to determine whether or not they agree with her - not strangers on the Internet.

Racism is real and it isn't always just a matter of interpretation. Anyone trying to gaslight people who have experienced racism by telling them that it isn't really racist probably has their own agenda.

Sorry, that was a response to @RedTagAlan but I forgot to quote.

OP, I am sorry you are having to deal with this.

When I was on the end of a sexist comment (a public 'joke' that I was sleeping with a colleague) from a senior person who had oversight of my department, in a corporate environment, I went to HR on the insistence of a friend (I had not intended to do anything), and was so glad I did. Like you, I worried about repurcussions, and had little faith in HR. Instead, I was listened to, given three options, and supported throughout the one I chose (confronting the senior colleague directly).

A few years later, the senior manager lost his job because his sexism made him a liability when the company was taken over by an American conglomerate.

So my advice would be to go and see HR, informally, for guidance, especially as you are not in a union and your company has no DEI network. Good luck. I hope you find a resolution.

Shame on you!

Although your first statement of your post is actually agreeing with me.

Quote " There are some circumstances which may be nuanced and subject to interpretation. Others are extremely clear cut."

My position is that if advice is sought on a racist incident, then my first port of call would be for the collective minds to be in the majority that it was a racist incident. And I mean sensible people, not a room full of, ahem, GB News comments posters.

And that should be really easy to do. Just say what slur was used, and perhaps a tiny bit of context. If it is in the well defined territory of clear cut, then everyone can say right, report.

Here we do not know anything.

And its' not gaslighting to ask for a tiny bit of info.

Gaslighting would be if the info was known, clear cut. and a poster was saying " well that's not really racist".

It would be very silly of the OP to give details of the incident here.

I worked a large corporate and had a role which meant that people would raise this type of issue with me and discuss before deciding how to proceed.

My organization took Speak Up seriously, and in an incident such as you describe, I would expect action to be taken. But…

1. HR can’t do much if there are no witnesses. Will the person to whom it was said speak up, will you? If both, you are collectively in a better place. Other people were there and if they heard, do much the better.
2. don’t investigate yourself. That’s HRs job.
3. Do you have an employee assistance line? Failing that a trusted co- worker?
4. I know you don’t want to describe what was said, but go to HR with a clear transcript of what was said, who was in the room etc.
5. One thing that I became increasingly aware of was that taking no action was not without risk…people take to social media and even the papers if nothing is done. Where I was, this did happen, and it was extremely bad news for both the organization and the perpetrator.

Good luck. I know this will be a stressful time.

You're completely missing the point.

The OP didn't come on to the thread to get advice on whether or not the incident was racist. It doesn't matter in the slightest what "collective minds" on Mumsnet might think, because she is already confident that the incident was indeed racist. She doesn't need advice on that, she just wants advice on how to report.

The real question arising from this thread is not what was actually said or whether it was "really racist" in the eyes of random people on the Internet. The question is why some posters might be so eager to cast doubt on the judgement of a POC who clearly believes that they have witnessed or experienced racism.

We frequently see POC being told that they are imagining things, that it isn't racism really, that people are just looking to be offended. Why on earth would you think the OP isn't qualified to make her own assessment?

It is for her employer to investigate. She doesn't need randoms on the Internet spouting forth their two penneth.

Agreed. Potentially a disciplinary offence if she plans to report it and someone finds that she has been posting on MN about it.

Thankfully, I don't think she has any intention of posting the detail.

my advice as someone who oversees a significant number of employee complaints would depend on how serious the initial behaviour was.

Union rep here. Speak to HR and also to ACAS. HR might want to brush it under the carpet. You could also speak to your manager if you think s/he might be helpful.

We’ve sacked someone who thought it was a good idea to call his new black puppy N-. And to refer to it constantly in a very diverse office.

She doesn't need advice on that, she just wants advice on how to report

I disagree - what she is looking for is advice on whether it is worth the potential career limitation by reporting. Part of that equation is going to be understanding whether the people to whom she complains are likely to take it seriously and that is largely dependent on the specific nature of the incident. Of course in a perfect world they would but we don’t live in a perfect world

The question is why some posters might be so eager to cast doubt on the judgement of a POC who clearly believes that they have witnessed or experienced racism

I don’t think posters are eager to cast doubt but to use an analogy. If I was junior would I report someone senior deliberately but subtly brushing up against me in a lift? Possibly not. Not because it wasn’t sexual assault but because of the nature of the incident too many people might argue it was accidental/ insignificant/misconstrued etc. what I know to be true (that it was an assault) sadly would matter less than how others perceive it.

I think even to reply to this post needs assumptions to be made.

Lets assume the OP is in a UK workplace. That has to be assumed.

So in a nation of 70 million people, a cultural melting pot, with pretty much every ethnicity on earth living there , there was a workplace racist incident, and if any detail is known the OP can be identified.

Having said that, if the slur was said in a rare language, then I totally agree with you. Then identification is possible.

But I am assuming it was in English.

And yes, I concede it's also possible if the OP knows someone in HR reads mumsnet. But in that case, would OP even start this thread ?

I just looked up Mumsnet users, they claim 700k user posts per month, so yeah, very slight possibility. That would depend on how many racist incidents are reported to HR ?

What exactly was said? You give no context

Where has she said that she is looking for advice on whether it is worth the potential career limitation by reporting?

She hasn't said that at all. She has stated very clearly that she wants to report it and that she considers it to be a matter of principle. She just wants advice on how to protect herself in the process.

A lot of people might tell her not to rock the boat. Keep quiet, it's not that big a deal. Suck it up if you want to progress. You probably misinterpreted it.

When people are so determined to minimise and silence those who are brave enough to speak up, it is no wonder these kind of toxic cultures are allowed to persist.

What I specifically asked for in my post:

'I was too shocked in the moment to say anything but want to raise a complaint with HR. I don't know how seriously they'll take it as the senior person oversees the HR team indirectly too! I'm also therefore concerned about being treated differently after I raise it.

Any advice on how I manage this e.g. I assume I should keep records, follow up conversations in writing over email etc?'

Nowhere do I ask whether I should think twice because the incident could be misconstrued. It was racist. I've since spoken to someone else who witnessed it (not the same race) who agrees. The person who it was directed at who laughed nervously and looked uncomfortable also likely agrees but the advice given on posts here is to not ask directly at this stage.

I am looking for advice on how to mitigate any potential blowback and go through the right process should it escalate.