If you have 3DC or more how do you manage the childcare?

[clutteredup]

I have a DD 15 mo, DD1 starts school in September and DS is already at school. If I go back to work I'd need a CM for before and after school and obviously full time care for DD2.
I have just done the sums and whichever way you look at it I can't earn enough to pay for the childcare. i reckon after tax and travel I would bring home about £900 to begin with, although that ,hopefully would increase with time.
But by my calculations that isn't enough to cover childcare.
I don't know if we'd be entitled to tax credits as DH earns over the limit. It just seems so daft that it would cost more to look after the DC than I would get paid.
Just want to know how anyone else manages it.

dilemma, thanks for that, I hadn't considered it at all. When would be qualifying week so I don't get reduced maternity pay or is it different for each employer? Must speak to dp about it as I think he can put more onto his vouchers, ds1 starting school anyway just after I go on leave.

It seems to me that one thing to make it work is by juggling your own and DH/DPs job, although this seems to me that then although both of you see the DC you don't get to spend time with eachother even at holidays and weekends. Is this sort of lifestyle really worth the extra cash? As I said before i would like more money , we don't go on holidays after all bills mortgage paid etc but if we never spent any time togehter as a family a holiday wouldn't be an option anyway unless one took DC away while other stayed behind and worked to pay for it
I can see its hard if its the only way to pay the bills, its not much of a life really.
Flexible working and working from home aren't really options when you teach in a school. I suppose i could look into a job as a civil servant, get DH to work flexible hours and do the same. I can see the early mornings vs late days working out though as a teacher i could do the after school shift but theres always going to be a delay between me finishing at my school and picking the DCs up from theirs.
At what age do they get themselves home and sorted out and help out with the younger ones - perhaps I could wait till then!

1dilemma I was responding to skiwear's comment "if the gov allowed childcare to be paid from your pretax salary, like it is for so many civil servants (dig dig)". I didn't mention general T&C.

Yes they do/did offer a 5 year career break (unpaid) but I don't believe it will be on offer much longer because they are cutting down on thousands of jobs so it wouldn't be possible. I didn't benefit from this because it came in long after I'd left to have my kids.

The trend of the earlier posts was "I just hear about people who 'can't afford not to go back to work' - how?". Well we fall into this category. DH's salary pays the mortgage and council tax. Without me working we couldn't have luxuries like electricity and gas and sewerage

Message withdrawn

What would be a nice idea is if a group of MNers in each area form a group that are prepared to look after each others children,and repay in kind.Most of us socialise with our local MNers,so its not much different.If you are close friends,and you trust each other,and just as important our children like and trust our friends,I'm sure it would be possible if you work part time to have 2 children on the days you dont work,in return for someone having yours for a day or two a week.We could have a Network of unofficial "childminders".Even if its just for a couple of years to bridge the gap until Playgroup or schools start.Just a thought..........

Move to France. You get loads of extras to help if you have four or more children! I was listening to women's hour on the radio lweek before last lol.

Now I love the idea of moving to France
I have wanted to ask on here whether they still have the 'benefits' of being a large family
famille nombreuses I think it's called, don't they get subsidised train travel too?

Ah Evanhope I see where you are coming from.

AQ google tells me your pay is usually based on the 8 week period up to the 15th week before expected week of childbirth

But that this varies according to how often you are paid and also can be varied contractually (might also include overtime too if that is relevant but not sure if only 'regular' overtime)
Maybe ask flowerybeenbag she seems to know loads (she's often in the employment section) if you can't find it in your contract/employee handbook/employers website or similar

Apologies as I haven't read the whole shebang but this thread is really a 'must read' for me at the mo. I'm thinking of re-training to teach and am thinking over the childcare/career issues. Are any of you teachers and do you think it's worth giving up the SAHM thing for training, with a view to increased income when youngest starts school? I have 3 dc, eldest at school, middle one starts Sept, youngest at nursery(aged 2). BTW full props to all those working Mums who are holding the financial as well as domestic fort.

You teachers really need another thread

Actually I'm the one out of order I think this was started by a teacher.

Check out whether you would be entitled to help with childcare costs whilst studying some are I gather but not sure why/who etc

I must look for a teachers thread then! Are you working 1dilemma?

Now?

Supposed to be but I'm so knackered I just end up mumsnetting instead!

to make it financially worth your while working you need to earn more than it costs you to work in childcare, travel etc

So, if it is not worth your while you either need to find better paid work or reduce your costs. Working when you can get free childcare from dh (eg evenings and weekends) is a common solution if you are not able to get work that pays highly enough to cover the childcare costs. And there are of course thousands of grandparents who provide free chilcare whilst parent work.

Starlight you say about people not being able to afford not to go back to work "IMO they are talking nonsense. What they mean is that there morgage/bills reflect and extremely expensive lifestyle that they cannot keep up with if they don't work. You're talking about your much higher tax payer that sees not going to work as 'loosing' £80k or whatever which they can easily afford childcare with!".

This may be true of some people but a lot of people need 2 incomes to fund quite modest lifestyles. Many need 2 incomes if they are able to afford their own very modest home, as opposed to local authority housing, and these people are unlikely to be higher rate tax payers.

I am a teacher - but you are welcome on this thread if you're not it was a genuine question as having done the sums it seems so hard and was wondering how so many people do it.
As a teacher the days can be shorter than your average office job but far less flexible and there are many after school things - again not flexible - which one has to take part in. I don't think its too different either way.
It is interesting to see how people cope - it certainly wouldn't be likely to be a lifestyle choice for most on here - rather a genuine requirement to pay the bills.
I do like the idea of running my own business from home - but what? Any ideas?

Message withdrawn

My special talent is teaching and i do do some tutoring - which i shouldn't complain pays well its just not frequent enough to bring in more than a few pounds, more then nothing thoughand no chilcare required as i do it after the DC are in bed.
Perhaps i should just try and win the lottery and then there wouldn't be a need
Like the idea of MUmsnetters looking after each others DC can we start a MN agency?

This is really interesting as I have also been wondering how people manage with more than one to pay childcare for.

I have one DS aged nearly 3, am expecting DC2 in November. Am about to be made redundant. Have already calculated that it's not worth me looking for a job until DC2 is 9 months - and maybe not even then.

Until now I have been on the higher salary of me and DH (if I was f/t) but working 3 days p/w. All the jobs I have seen which I could apply for are lower salaries than what I've been on (because the better paid roles are f/t ones.) None of them would leave me with more than £260 per month after childcare and travel, when I could claim JSA which is £240 per month - I decided it was worth working for £80 per month but not £20.

Plus there is the difficulty of finding a job whilst pregnant if you are soon to be going on maternity leave.

I have decided to go on the dole for 6 months (apparently for first 6 months it's based on NI you've paid not means-tested - after that they look at your savings, partners earnings etc) until the baby arrives, then claim maternity allowance for 9 months.

But when that finishes, I will need to find another job. However, DD1 will not yet be in school so can't see how I can find something which will pay for 2 lots of childcare. Even when DD1 starts school it will still mean paying for 9 hours per week childcare for her plus 27 hours for baby. I don't fancy putting her in afterschool club when she's in reception.

However I think I will have to find a job even if it all goes on childcare so we can re-mortgage - when our fixed rate runs out next May we may be in trouble trying to get a new mortgage on only one modest salary.

As well as working f/t my DH teaches 1 evening p/w and is hoping to increase to 2 evenings p/w, I think this could be difficult having him come home late trying to settle 2 kids on my own etc. but as least we'll have weekends together which some couples don't if one's working.

Like others I would like to keep my hand in workwise - I'm nervous about being out of the workplace for 15 months or more - but I'm not prepared to work for nothing (especially when dealing with being pregnant, tired etc). So I am just hoping that I will be able to find something suitable that pays enough when the time comes. Ideally during school hours so I can pick DD up from school, but as someone said school hours jobs are probably as rare as hens teeth!

I have thought we may have to move out of London to be able to afford to live - but then we'd both have to find work in a new town first.

There are no easy solutions!

Is it just me, or is the normal life stuff the hard bit? We have 3 DCs, 3.5yrs, 2 and 6 months. Husband works shifts and I work p/t freelance around that. Parents help, but its not working. We are now finding that the post is piling up, the washing is piling up, the toy mountain is piling up etc etc... We tag in and out (like so many other families do, too) and frankly, I am miserable.

We either get a nanny and risk the fact that I might not get any new work coming in and therefore wont be able to pay her. Or don't get a nanny and then I can't go to work even if I do get a job cos wont have any childcare. And DH can't bear the thought of me not working, cos when I do I earn good money. Caught in a mum's catch 22 hell.

Sometimes I just think its too hard to coordinate it all. You still have to do all the mum's jobs: other people's birthdays "how much have you spent?", "have you bought granny a card?", "how much do dance classes actually cost?", "X needs new shoes". Who has to do the work to find the childcare? Mum. Who spends hours fretting on mumsnet? Mum... Give me a break, I am hanging on the edge of a nervous breakdown!

Maybe I'll just pack in work all together for my own sanity? Anyone else do this for mental health reasons, rather than the money? Did you ever get over the shock of turning down work? Am I ranting? I just can't do it all anymore

peasforteaagain, your post is so similar to the feelings I have atm. I don't work full time, i do 2 days a week, but it's a nightmare to fit things in.

I have just entered the world of nurseries and it is so expensive. i've in the category of paying out alot now until dd goes to school and i won't have to pay for 2 dc. atm i don't get much for working, but if i left now a became SAHM, then went back to work in Jan(more affordable childcare with 1 dc) then i would need a new job. My boss is so flexible atm that i cannot afford to lose this job. I am hopeful that when ds goes to school(3 years in sept, so planning ahead justa little) that my boss will say yes to term time only hours. In another workplace i would doubt it'd be a yes.

so i am working for peanuts atm to be able to earn better in the future. It crap

and i'm luck that i am able to work from home so only have to pay childcare for 1 day a week and dh does the other day(sat/sun) or else i really would be working for peanuts or less

Peas you sound like me, yes it is tough and I'm sure it will get better.
i also have the problem of needing to work at home in the evening in order to progress in the way I want to at home yet am too tired to do anything except mumsnet. (I'm seriously cnsidering getting myself barred!)

I go round and round the various childcare permutations over and over again, then when I've done that I go round and round thepossible locations (I'm in London so there are loads of options nearby ).

I live for the holidays

Don't know what else to say quite frankly, don't fuss about small things and make sure your dh pulls his weight. (I have suggested to mine he is responsible for his family and their birthdays, we have a date book we have a whole lot of generic cards then over to him..... now none of them are talking to us they think we don't care!)

I suspect the answer may be winning the lottery but I'll let you know i I find another

Glad its not just me! I am on mat leave with DC2. I have just worked out that after childcare for both I would be taking home £109 and thats before travel which would leave about £50. DD would be due to start school 18 months later so the working for peanuts perios is relatively short lived (although not sure how much breakfast/after school clubs are). I like my job (sometimes) and have worked there for 8 years. The work is highly specialised, the pay is not bad (although not enough for London nursery prices!), I get loads of holiday and its flexible. Its just the type of job I will need when both DCs are at school and I fear if I leave and stay at home for 4-5 years that I wont find that type of job again. Having said that though many of the benefits are specific to the company I work for so unless I stayed there for many years the positives of the job would be limited. I have tried looking at other jobs I could apply for but feel limited by how specialist my skills are and the poor salaries. I am fortunate that DH earns enough to cover our basic costs but I never imagined being a SAHM. I dont mean that to be in anyway offensive it just never occurred to me. I suppose I just believed that we can have it all and under the right circumstances I guess you can, either by earning enough yourself or having lots of free childcare from parents, etc.

1dilemma you made me LOL with your birthday card comments, thank you! I don't think I have smiled for 3 days You are right, deep breath, head down, crack on...
I am up in my office 'working'. Can't actually work, as my 82 sheet spreadsheet makes my brain hurt and all I can do is read. Read mumsnet to be accurate...

And micegg, I too never thought about being a SAHM. But then found out that I am actually good at it, and I like it! Which makes it all the more difficult when you really need that hole in the roof fixing, and just 1 day at work would do it... sigh.

Maybe we need a night-time joke thread. Has anyone read the Secret Life of a Slummy Mummy by the way? Is there a thread for that already? I am just new...

Welcome peas glad I made you laugh I'm not funny often.

We did however have peas for tea again.

I'm not so sure about your SAHM comment and your 82 sheat spreadsheet I didn't think many Mummies had one of those.

I really am off to do some work.

(via a cup of tea)