If you have 3DC or more how do you manage the childcare?

[clutteredup]

I have a DD 15 mo, DD1 starts school in September and DS is already at school. If I go back to work I'd need a CM for before and after school and obviously full time care for DD2.
I have just done the sums and whichever way you look at it I can't earn enough to pay for the childcare. i reckon after tax and travel I would bring home about £900 to begin with, although that ,hopefully would increase with time.
But by my calculations that isn't enough to cover childcare.
I don't know if we'd be entitled to tax credits as DH earns over the limit. It just seems so daft that it would cost more to look after the DC than I would get paid.
Just want to know how anyone else manages it.

i work full time and DS is in nursery, he'll go to school in september, so will only pay breakfast and after school fees. am mulling over whether to have another baby, but don't know if we can afford the £1k per month fees they charge round here

I'm really interested in how you all are coping - I have one DD who's 7 months & just found out i'm expecting again - we're only just sorting out nursery care for DD & thought we may as well do the sums for 2. We were shocked at the cost & laughed when nursey staff said their discount for siblings was 10 pounds a week! woopeedoo! I have to go back to work for 3 months or pay back some mat pay, but then have to decide whether it's worth me going to back to work, and if we could survive on DH pay. It's really difficult.

Treeny, I can see your point, but... isn't it usually the case that (I know it is with us) that the DH's husband is already going to all the bills (mortgage, utilities, food,travel,...) meaning that any childcare would have to come out of the new wage. e.g. If he were to earn 25k and that's going on all of the above, your extra 10k would not cover childcare if you had 2 dc's both going to nursery (we tried it for a while and nursery bills for 2 dc's were easily 1k a month, i.e. 12k a year and so definitely not worth my while to go to work at that time!)
Saying all that, I did train to be a midwife when my ds was 2 and dd was a baby. We used a nursery for both for the 1st 6 months of my training, but found that we were running at a BIG loss as my bursary was only 4k. We have no family nearby, my own parents live in another country and my dp's parents live a good hour's drive away. My training also involved shift work and my dp works away from home. Therefore the only childcare solution we could find is to take an au pair and accept the loss of privacy that comes with it (by then my dd was 1). We pay her £65 a week + room and board and it's ideal for us as she's flexible and can be there early in the morning, late at night or even when I need to work a night. It is cheap and unregulated childcare, but without our au pairs I would not have been able to do my training and now work (part time). So we owe them a lot, because they've all been brilliant so far.

At the moment DHs income is 'our' income, if i went back to work the childcare costs would come out of 'our' income but overall we would have less to play with - we have precious little as it is, so it would cost us finacially as a family for me to go back to work. much as i like to work I'm not sure i do actually want to pay for the priviledge, whoevers income it comes out of its all less money for the family.

Nice to know I am not alone! I am in a professional but very specialised job. I am currently on mat leave with DC2 and worked out last night that after childcare and travel I would only be left with £100 per month. Of course thats still a fairly large sum of money if you need that £100 but doesnt seem alot for all the hard work. This situation would only be the case for 18 months though as DD would start schoool then which would reduce my childcare costs by about £40 per day. My only motivation for going back and working for relatively little for 18 months would be to maintain my skills in my area of work and for long term earnings. Just havent yet decided if thats a ig enough motivation!

I have 3 kids, 1 who is 14, 1 who 11 and a 2 year old. My job was a bog standard admin position, (so not earning huge sums of money). BUT, under new governement laws anyone who has a child under the age of 6 can apply for FLEXIBLE working. So whatever job you have or at looking to get, once you have started you are within your legal rights to apply for the hours you want, which in effect could be, full-time to part-time, school hours only, term-time only, home working etc. I applied to do term-time only as i couln't afford to pay for child care during holidays, and despite everyone saying they won't let you do it, they did! So just go for it, WHEREVER you work. Make the law work for YOU.

I've been struggling with this as well.

Part time - not enough to cover childcare
Fulltime (6 days) - can't get SAturday childcare
Fulltime (5 days) - won't see them awake during the week.

I have 2 dc and don't work at the moment, i have no family or friends to help with childcare even if i wanted to go to work. I was working up until xmas last year when i was paid off, i then lost dd's place at the childminders. There are no spaces at any other childminders in my area. When dd starts school in august I will be going to work nightshift three days a week and sleep when the kids are at school. My dh is a heating engineer and works late most nights, he will be home when i'm leaving for work, but hey its life and we just have to deal with it.

I am currently on mat leave after having dc3. I work a 21 hour flexi week (I do 3 7 hour days) and dh works shifts so we manage the childcare between us. If we had to pay for childcare it wouldn't be worth my while financially unless I worked full-time which I wouldn't really want to do whilst they're so little.

Personally I would love not to work at all but we couldn't manage on DHs salary alone.

I can see that the flexible hours thing could work if you threstened to take themto a tribunal if they didn't let you but what if you're applying for a new job i can't belive any employer would take on someone new who was going to ask for flexible hours - so if you're like me and haven't had a job for 7 years how do you get back into it. Also there are soem jobs that just wouldn't be able to accommodate it .

I think before sunrise said it well - if you love your job you're not so fussed if you're doing it for practically nothing. Personally, i'm glad that childcare is so expensive at the moment, to give me the excuse to be s SAHM for the time being. I would be qite miffed for my mum to look after my kids - afterall, ahe had her turn being a SAHM, and now its mine turn! I realise that if you hav eto work for financial reasons, this reasoning will be found v irritating

i work part time, but i do a long day on a sunday which involves going to work from 7.30 am till 9.30 pm

thats a whole chunk of hours out the way with dp at home for the childcare.

i then do 2 other days in the week (7.30 till 3.30) and the boys go to nursery, which costs me around £600 per month.

i will be richer when they no longer go to nursery, but at the moment i'm left over with enough to pay the loan and buy food... dp couldn't do that all alone!

i am pleased actually to discover that i now can be a SAHM without having to make excuses for myself, I have been a SAHM for 7 years now, DD2 15 mo , but i do get the feeling that some people feel I should be thinking of going back to work now, that I'm being a bit of a scrounger on my DH.

a scrounger on your DH no way
im a sahm to we do a very valuable job no need to make excuses some mums are happy raising there kids and just that
he does his bit we do ours if it works it works
we all have different expectations of life
im happy at home with the kids
sometimes feel a bit brain dead i was an english teacher before
i often say to me dh i should go back to work he says why should you
if your not happy go for it
if you are happy say at home and do what you do
i think im lucky i get to play withy my kids take them out enjoy them
i actually look forward to half term cos we plan all sorts of things to do together
us sahm moms dont need to make excuses

I am an nurse(surprise) and I went back to work last year and put my 2 DD's with a Childminder,she had a sibling discount,but even with that i couldn't continue,and nurses pay isnt bad these days! I then tried to find work at home or night work and that has been ok,I also work with an Agency so the hourly rate is higher,but work isnt regular.My DD1 starts school in sept so that will be easier. Childminding is an option,but in order to claim Childcare vouchers the childcare has to be "registered".Try looking on www.workingmums.co.uk website and jobsformums as they have some good jobs there which you can do from home or take child with you.Good Luck,theres no easy answer!

What about the whole tax credits system...
Dont you get help with that? or for Children from 3 years can get free nursery education.
Some childminders can also offer this for 4 yr olds.

i mean 3 yr olds not 4 yr olds

Disneystar - an English teacher??!!! I can see why you've given up work...

Well I am on maternity leave at the moment with my first, and have been agonising over whether to go back to work. I have decided for now that I will, but only because -

a) we are moving in with my parents to save money (eek!) and my Dad doean't work & Mum only works PT, so they will be able to look after DD

and b) I just got a promotion which will start when I go back, and is about a 40% increase on my current salary, considering our finances I can't really turn down the extra cash

However, I don't know how I will cope being away from DD so much (work in London, live in Surrey so 60 min commute) so am going to give it a go for a few months and see. Certainly wouldn't go back if parents couldn't help, and will probably stop once I have another child.

I work 2 x 10 hour days, Mondays & Fridays (hence only posting now). Have 2 DC, 3 & 1 who are at nursery, costing £568/ month. We don't get tax credits, but both use childcare vouchers, which saves us £180 per month, meaning it costs £388 for childcare. It leaves me with £approx £1200 net.

starlight I think I was a bit sharp with you yesterday-sorry (I'd just done the maths and worked out we're stuffed and I've now realised I've forgotten to include summer holiday care this year!)

Treeny yes childcare is split between me and dp as are all the bills net effect is the same he's subsidising me to work.

I'm like miceegg for my reason I'd just guess my expenses are larger we've no room for an aupair, I did do that sum and worked out it was negligable however I've got more figures now and we want to move so I think I will do them again and see if it changes.

milkybars that was precisely my point in bog standard admin flexible working probably works there are many many jobs where it doesn't, I actually know a fair few people who work alternating shifts with their dh because there is no way otherwise I feel very sorry for them must be very tough, I also know several who have delayed starting a family or having another because of the cost. Sad for them too.

clutteredup you can 'scrounge' of your dh as much as you like just so long as you aren't scrounging off me I can barely afford my family never mind anything else.

DeeLondon if you live in London you must be aware of the costs, childcare for one child well over £200 a week often closer to £250 3 dcs close to £3K post tax salary tax credits are very unfair, my figures are out because I know the amount has just changed but 2 people both working earning 35K each gross salary 70K childcare eating up all of one salary gross salary 35K no tax credits and not a huge amount for London living and 80+ hours a weeks work, 2 people one working earning 40K and they will get a fair bit on top, tell me where's the fairness in that?

I still say a huge help would be if the gov allowed childcare to be paid from your pretax salary, like it is for so many civil servants (dig dig), would give everyone on here an extra 28ish % on their childcare costs now that would be a useful mumsnet campaign

Skiwear, i believe thats how the Chilcare voucher system works,we had them for while, before DD2 came along,they are paid for out of your salary before Tax,so that helps a little,but you do get penalised in another way,so DH says,as they set your Pension etc on your Net Income,or something like that,so what they give with one hand.....!

Clutteredup Hi

Sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread, so apologies if I am repeating anything.

We have three DCs aged 7, 4 and 1. DH and I both have to work to pay hefty London mortgage and I love my job too

However our CM costs would be over £15,000 per. year if we both worked fulltime normal hrs. (1 fulltime baby place at CM and two before/after school journeys with CM, plus school holidays of course)

We have both negotiated flexible hours with our employers. I work from home a few hours a week and do 3 longish days in the office.

DH does 4 long days, including Saturday. He stays at home 2 days during the week.

This means we only have to pay the CM for one full-length day.

We just wouldn't be able to manage it any other way. If one of us were to give up work it would be DH as I am the higher earner.

No doubt this has been said, but both you and your DH are entitled to have a request for flexible working taken seriously (90% of all requests are approved in the UK). Your employers would need to provide a business case for refusing your request, or at least negotiating a compromise.

Just a suggestion really - it has worked for us and enabled us to both afford the childcare and also feel as though we have some quality time with the DCs during the week and we anage to stay in the school/playground loop too

My feeling is that only the very rich or those on benefits can afford to have childrn in this country. Tax credits were designed to help people on low incomes, but thousands of families have received demands claiming they have been overpaid and have to pay tax credits back to the government because the system is so hard to fathom.

Many families on moderate incomes receive no help at all, because their joint income is just over the £58k limit which was set years ago and has never been raised to match inflation - so effectivevly the ceiling has dropped year on year

What we really need is universal affordable childcare for all who want/need to work and financial help for those who want to stay at home for the first fews years, so that they can afford to do that.

Hmmpphh!

Thank you fitfox you really have answered my question as My DC are exactly the same age as yours. I gave up work after DS as I knew that the demands of my job - unreasonable boss - would mean I couldn't manage the late hours as DH works away a lot and couldn't have worked out how to get childcare after 6p.m. My headteacher was old fashioned i.e. had no consideration to make allowances for those with children and it was before she really had to.
I don't know if a new employer would employ someone if they asked for flexible working hours it would be easier for them to give the job to someone else, also as we have no family nearby I would have trouble if one of them got ill. I suppose DH would be able to demand flexible working but as his salary is so much more than mine again we would be giving up money for me to go back to work.
I guess I have to say that this is my 'job' now and its not that I don't like it really its that I was always led to believe it was a choice. SAH and earn less or go back to work to pay for the luxuries - I suppose the luxuries are having someone else look after your children