Think I've seriously eff'd up

[Scaredofet]

Hi all

I think I've massively messed up an investigation at work and I've not slept for 2 days, just wondering how bad this is please.

I was appointed as investigating officer for a violent attack that happened last week.

There wasn't a grievance meeting, it was not required due to it being a report of violence and company needing to address asap.

I just needed to get the statements from everyone and ask q's etc.

But, I slipped into grievance meeting mode with the victim and asked the q regarding their ideal resolution 😭 i made sure to say the q doesnt necessarily mean it could be resolved as they wish but thsts asked as we'd genuinely wanted to hear what they had to say about resolution etc etc. and that's all noted. The victim really appreciated being asked the q and surprisingly didn't say the other person should be sacked, they just wanted to be put on another shift so they'd never see them again.

Obviously this q is in the notes THAT HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE PERP in their info pack 😩

Peraonnel are saying that q from me is probably going to give them grounds to appeal (obviously i dont know what the decision will be but I'd be astounded if it's not dismissal) and apparently all the higher management team are really pissed off at the prospect they might get away with it on a technicality 😭

I honestly feel sick and I don't know what to do 😔 I've not really eaten since Monday. I love my job and I've never had any problems in 37 years of working. Is there any way I'm not massively in the shit here or shall I just leave? ☹️

You haven't messed up. It was a fair and reasonable question that strengthens the investigation and any later panel decision.

The allegation, if proven, warrants summary dismissal. The victim's opinion is irrelevant. The decision is for the panel to take bearing in mind all of the evidence.

Your HR department needs a kick up the arse and that individu would be on a performance improvement plan in my dept.

You need and should sleep easy.

HR Director BTW.

It depends. If you were to walk up and stab me in the middle of the office, in full view of everyone, this would be grounds for summary dismissal - sacked on the spot, no notice etc.

If we'd had an argument in the carpark and I'd claimed you pushed me causing me to fall, while you claimed no such thing had happened and I'd tripped due to not paying attention while shouting at you, there would need to be an investigation. CCTV, witnesses etc.

Summary dismissal can still be unfair/unlawful, but it's still very much an option.

OP, you are human and have made an error (as every other human being on the planet has). Please speak to your line manager , I sincerely hope that they are empathetic to your situation. Would be worrying if they weren't

Don't you think Personnel, sounds alot more accurate tho than human resources that makes humans sound like robots and just a resource

Thank you so much, and to everyone else knowledgeable/supportive/both.

Today does feel brighter I wish I had posted before x

This.

I was trained in this in my last position and there is no way it would have been handled by anyone other than HR and likely a senior HR too.

OP you’ve done nothing wrong here. Your company on the other hand are crazy to have done this in this manner.

I regularly support investigators where i work and they all ask at the end of the interview, what resolution are they looking for. Its standard where i work.

@Praying4Peace
OP, you are human and have made an error (as every other human being on the planet has). Please speak to your line manager , I sincerely hope that they are empathetic to your situation. Would be worrying if they weren't

Absolute twaddle. The OP hasnt made an error at all.

Every place I’ve worked would instantly dismiss an employee who assaulted a colleague and be escorted off the premises.
I cannot see the OP has done anything wrong.

We have Talent and Culture, people is old hat 😂

The personnel/HR guy has just come by my workstation with a bacon sandwich from the canteen, I'd told him I haven't really eaten with worry for a couple of days ive only had a pot noodle 🥹 it's the nicest thing I've ever eaten!

HR are talking bollocks - where was there support for you in this process? I am presuming there was an HR representative with you during interviews to ensure policies were being followed?

The question is fine, the victim’s response is fine - its doesn’t make a bit of difference what the victim or perpetrator wants - the company policy is followed. An assault happened = this is what the company policy states happens next.

I assume the police are also investigating?

That was the way it was at every workplace I have been employed at

Exactly this. Op that question alone isn't a reason to appeal a dismissal if the behaviour is dismissal worthy. Its the employers choice not the employee that's the victim choice, because an investigation needs to be carried out to determine wrong doing and I'm surprised your hr department don't know this and don't know their rights in this situation . Maybe they need to go and get legal advice from someone who does know the rules.

@Drfosters
Certainly not the process in places Ive worked (senior HR) and I've had several cases where police were also involved concurrent to us undertaking the internal disciplinary action. Not just violence, also fraud etc. Police investigations can take months even years these days. Even if it gets referred to CPS (and many police cases don't go that far - ask any rape victim) CPS may choose not to charge. In all that time you'd have someone suspended on full pay. That's not justice for the victim, or indeed the accused employee waiting for an outcome.

We'd conduct an investigation as best we could. Sometimes an ongoing police investigation slows it down, especially if the accused employee refuses to be interviewed (often as advised by their solicitor). But the threshold for dismissal is "on the balance of probabilities" the alleged offence happened and "band of reasonableness" in term of whether dismissal is a reasonable decision (i.e. what any other reasonable employer might do).

Employers aren't required to meet a criminal threshold of "beyond reasonable doubt" for disciplinary action. Nor is the employment Tribunal. An ET will want to see as fair and thorough an investigation as is possible in the circumstances, as explained in the ACAS guidelines.

@scaredofet I don't think you have screwed up that badly. The disciplinary panel will make the decision and I can't see why what the victim said would have any impact on their decision. Sounds like you HR/Personnel chap is trying to reassure you so don't worry. It might be that some less experience HR people or senior staff are panicking. At best I'd expect the accused employee to use it for mitigating circumstances (assuming they admit they've done the violent act) by saying " don't sack me even the victim doesn’t want it" which the disciplinary panel can consider but don't have to agree. The panel certainly need some support and advice about how to treat that victim statement (i.e. as irrelevant) but that's not your problem now.

Exactly. Spot on... maybe that's the real issue at hand!!

I don't understand how asking how they would want it resolved could be seen as biased.
I would think you'd have grounds to contest it if they sack you for that.
Are you in a Union? If so take advice from them

No they never mentioned if they reported it. I'm personally curious what's going on, but it has no relevance to the workplace investigation so I didn't ask.

I know they are getting support, they are fine. Or as fine and supported as they can be.

I do find it hard to be impartial when I'm doing investigations sometimes tbh but I really am just there to establish the facts