Think I've seriously eff'd up

[Scaredofet]

Hi all

I think I've massively messed up an investigation at work and I've not slept for 2 days, just wondering how bad this is please.

I was appointed as investigating officer for a violent attack that happened last week.

There wasn't a grievance meeting, it was not required due to it being a report of violence and company needing to address asap.

I just needed to get the statements from everyone and ask q's etc.

But, I slipped into grievance meeting mode with the victim and asked the q regarding their ideal resolution 😭 i made sure to say the q doesnt necessarily mean it could be resolved as they wish but thsts asked as we'd genuinely wanted to hear what they had to say about resolution etc etc. and that's all noted. The victim really appreciated being asked the q and surprisingly didn't say the other person should be sacked, they just wanted to be put on another shift so they'd never see them again.

Obviously this q is in the notes THAT HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE PERP in their info pack 😩

Peraonnel are saying that q from me is probably going to give them grounds to appeal (obviously i dont know what the decision will be but I'd be astounded if it's not dismissal) and apparently all the higher management team are really pissed off at the prospect they might get away with it on a technicality 😭

I honestly feel sick and I don't know what to do 😔 I've not really eaten since Monday. I love my job and I've never had any problems in 37 years of working. Is there any way I'm not massively in the shit here or shall I just leave? ☹️

You should have been given proper training before they asked you to do an investigation - which is to establish facts, not opinions.
However, in this case where a crime has been alleged, then they should have called the police to investigate!

I know someone who’s been put in the position of investigator/judge for a work incident. The person has no skills/qualifications in that area. I don’t know why companies are allowed to do this.

I don't know how your process works, but the info sent is just the opinion of the victim. If they had said 'I'd just like to forget about it and move on' would that mean no disciplinary action is necessary? Of course not. Or if they wanted them sacked, sued and jailed would your organisation be obligated to make that happen? Again, of course not.
In all likelihood the perpetrator will appeal if they're sacked, what would they have to lose at that point? Whatever they decide your organisation cannot blame you for it.

I am trained I just messed up 😩

'@CantHoldMeDown · Today 08:42

Victim within their rights not to engage with a police investigation if they don’t want one.
until it’s investigated by the workplace, it’s an allegation. You can’t sack someone without evidence.'

• This happened in the workplace so the employer has a stake in this too: as I said someone who was violent towards one employee might be a risk to other employees or clients in the future. The employer has a duty of care and can't just ignore this.

• I said the person should be suspended first (while the investigation is happening) then sacked for gross misconduct if the matter is proven.

Why are you so keen for a potentially violent employee to not be properly investigated? if they have done nothing wrong then this will come out.

Hopefully in a risk assessed way that doesn't place the victim at risk of more violence.

This was my first thought!

You should have had a HR person in the room supporting you in the hearing. It's not your fault, you are not a HR person or lawyer or police officer. Hopefully it will just be something that now is taken out of your hands. If anything comes of it then push back and document everything and explain that you werent properly supported. This isnt on you, it is on HR, the violent person and your boss.

You haven't messed up - you are meant to be an independent person in this situation and HR shouldn't be pressuring you to ask or not ask certain questions. HR aren't going to have their hands tied just because of what the victim says - it's just one of many considerations regarding next steps - but by no means a determinative one. You've done your job well as they will need to make a considered and documented decision not a knee jerk one!

I can't blame HR, well maybe now a little for the panic caused unnecessarily by the sound of it 🙏 but they're a decent bunch

I've worked in HR for 20 years I've no idea what they are insinuating or making you worry about.

A violent attack? Surely the police are involved. Why are you dealing with it.

Not an expert, but doesn't seem like you messed up. In any serious dispute between two employees, seeking a fair resolution would require some idea of what the complainant is looking for.
If moving one of the employees to a different location prevented an issue recurring it would seem foolish to not put that on the table. Your question could keep the person being disciplined in their job.
The argument that the complainant's ideal solution indicates a fake claim to achieve that end is something that the person being disciplined would likely raise anyway.
Good luck.

Op we all make mistakes. What can be learnt from it is the only thing to take away

Do you not have your questions prepared and written down? You might want to in future.

It's not a mega mistake is it. It gives the person hearing the case some leeway regarding the punishment for what is presumably gross misconduct - that's all.

More worrying is that so many people know what is going on during an investigation - that is really poor form. Very unprofessional.

If they followed your suggested route, with no investigation, hearing and right of appeal - it's unfair dismissal and could be a big payout at employment tribunal.

You asked a valid question to assess the expectation of the victims, but emphasised that it wasn’t a guarentee of an outcome. That’s just doing a full investigation.

If the person committed a violent assault, and you have the evidence, then asking a simple question should
not be enough to get them off the hook.

Thank you so much!got it.i am trying to take it off🥵

The fact that the victim says they do not want the colleague sacked does not mean that the company is bound by the victim's wish. The company can do what it sees fit based on its disciplinary procedures. If the assault is bad enough, they should dismiss the other employee irrespective of what the victim thinks. The victim's opinion is just that and the company should make the distinction between her opinion and company policy. If the other employee appeals, so be it. You cant have individual employees determing what the outcome should be of a disciplinary procedcure. Its a matter of company policy. So no you haven't effed up and please don't lose any more sleep over it. Its not worth it.

I totally agree with this. Apart from most disciplinaries being appealed, I've guided lots of managers throughout many procceses throughout many years and can count on one hand the amount of appeals I've had.

Jesus so much misinformation on this thread. Lots of people very confidently wrong.

I have twice been disciplinary manager for incidents that were also crimes - one incident of fraud and one of sexual assault. In both cases they were sacked a long time before the police had finished an investigation. In the fraud case they went to prison but about 18 months after we'd dismissed them. In the assault case he was never convicted but I am satisfied there was absolutely enough evidence for us to sack him for gross misconduct.

What do you think we should have done? For the fraud - kept them suspended on full pay for a year and a half? Allowed them to continue having access to work systems when we were satisfied they had committed fraud? Ridiculous. And for the assault - just shrugged and kept him on?

Anyway, OP, I really know the feeling. It's stressful being involved in these things and none of us are robots. Hope you feel better soon, these things are much better with some distance!

Having the right to appeal and actually appealing still doesn’t equate to actually getting his job back.
Really it doesn’t matter what the victim would prefer to happen, violence in the workplace is gross misconduct. The company is within their rights to dismiss after following a fair process and he can appeal that decision all he wants, it doesn’t make a jot of difference as long as they have followed the correct process. If your investigation gathered enough evidence of gross misconduct then that’s all that matters. It’s up to the decision makers to make the case with what you have presented. They will have a hearing and he will be given the right of appeal regardless. Whether he appeals depends on what kind of person he is and what advice he is given and not anything you have or haven’t done. Either way no one has to give him his job back just because he appeals. Otherwise everyone who was dismissed would just appeal and get their job back. He’s been violent towards a colleague. Let’s keep perspective here. He’s lucky there doesn’t sound like there is any police involvement. He should take that as a win and go away quietly. If he doesn’t then more fool him.

@Nodlikeyouwerelistening

Exactly. What the victim would prefer is largely irrelevant if there has been an assault. As long as the OP has conducted a full investigation, she has done her job. Ultimately, its not her decision.