Think I've seriously eff'd up

[Scaredofet]

Hi all

I think I've massively messed up an investigation at work and I've not slept for 2 days, just wondering how bad this is please.

I was appointed as investigating officer for a violent attack that happened last week.

There wasn't a grievance meeting, it was not required due to it being a report of violence and company needing to address asap.

I just needed to get the statements from everyone and ask q's etc.

But, I slipped into grievance meeting mode with the victim and asked the q regarding their ideal resolution 😭 i made sure to say the q doesnt necessarily mean it could be resolved as they wish but thsts asked as we'd genuinely wanted to hear what they had to say about resolution etc etc. and that's all noted. The victim really appreciated being asked the q and surprisingly didn't say the other person should be sacked, they just wanted to be put on another shift so they'd never see them again.

Obviously this q is in the notes THAT HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE PERP in their info pack 😩

Peraonnel are saying that q from me is probably going to give them grounds to appeal (obviously i dont know what the decision will be but I'd be astounded if it's not dismissal) and apparently all the higher management team are really pissed off at the prospect they might get away with it on a technicality 😭

I honestly feel sick and I don't know what to do 😔 I've not really eaten since Monday. I love my job and I've never had any problems in 37 years of working. Is there any way I'm not massively in the shit here or shall I just leave? ☹️

The very fact your response is to ask mumsnet really does indicate quite how out of your depth you were and are

And you think littering your posts with emojis is appropriate when we are talking about the victim of a violent attack?

This is tripe. You do not pause an investigation, keep someone suspended snd continue to pay them until the police (take years) to finish their investigation, charge them and get them through court.

I had a colleague who embezzled a couple thousand pounds. They were caught and then sacked within 3 weeks. It didn’t go to court for 4 years.

You don’t pause an investigation.

You “think the police are involved”?

I missed that one! That was very helpful as I do recognise the username from other threads, thank you cantholdmedown.

A few have asked about support given- not much practically tbh because I am experienced in investigations, I just had a total brain fart when I asked that question 😩 and i can understand the need to keep statements/accounts as noted so i don't want to blame personnel (HR 😬)

I have just had a nice message from the hr officer Im liaising with in the team, I'd messaged him last night saying I was worried, he's said it's not a huge problem, and if it is cited in an appeal he's not sure what the grounds would be as that q wouldn't have any effect on the outcome as others have said. He said the others are just getting twitchy about it all and everyone questions themselves in these situations.

I'm still shitting bricks though but they are a bit smaller now I guess.

The emojis are showing how bad she feels both for the victim and that she has may be made a mistake and the perpetrator might get away with it. She’s doing and done her best. She is not the aggressor so let’s not turn out anger towards the aggressor into the wrong person.

Be fair I am/was really worried I've ballsed it all up and it might all have to start again, I don't want that for the victim

@JoshTylerHarley17102
I’m sorry to hear about the horrible things you are going through. However, did you realise that you’ve posted this in the middle of another thread about something completely different (a work situation)? I’m only telling you this so you can get the support you need. Just in case you don’t know, you are unlikely to get many people reading and replying to you here. You need to start a new thread of your own. If you’re new to Mumsnet and don’t know how to do this, you could contact the admin or support to see if they can help you move your post.

What have I just read? This whole thing is bloody ridiculous!

If someone was physically assaulted whilst at work, the police should be called and the employer should suspend the alleged perpetrator and do NOTHING else until the outcome of the Police investigation has been concluded.

Your potentially incompetent ‘investigation’ could easily muddle the situation and affect the outcome of the actual criminal prosecution.

I’m not aware of many HR staff having much experience of criminal law…

You don’t even know whether the police are involved
and you were leading this investigation

utterly utterly unfathomable

Victim does know, I always say their accounts will/may be shared as part of a fair process and get their consent.

Perhaps a risk of asking someone who has been violently attacked what they want to happen to the perpetrator is that if they say they want them removed from the workplace / sacked, they may be shunned by friends / workmates of the perpetrator. By stating they just want them on a different shift, they can honestly say to people they didn’t ask for them to be sacked. Doesn’t mean that the perpetrator shouldn’t be sacked. (Perhaps some similarities to DV cases when the case is prosecuted despite the victim refusing to give evidence.)

Again, not true. You do not need to wait for a police investigation to finish. It is totally separate.
You finish your own, and you fire them for gross misconduct.

People need to stop posting utter nonsense. You do not keep someone suspended and on the payroll for however long it takes to get to court. Even if they are found not guilty at court, it doesn’t impact the internal investigation and dismissal. Court is very different.

My point is that the Op doesn’t know

I was just thinking the opposite. There are a lot of really well informed responses by posters who know what they are talking about and OP has received a lot of highly practical and relevant advice. As everyone who knows anything about it has said, if you are going to be investigating officer then you should get support from HR not blamed and given a false impression of what might happen as a result.

FWIW OP I think you are right that it would have been better not to have asked that specific question on this occasion but there’s no way that it provides the attacker with valid grounds for an appeal in these circs because the violence by itself is a sackable offence the victims.

you sound like a great member of the team by the way - doing an investigation is a lot and you are clearly trusted and well regarded. There’s no need to worry so much. Whoever gave you the impression that this was such a big problem needs a talking to from someone.

Because she doesn’t need to. It has nothing to do with her. If the police are investigating and eventually get round to it, they can speak to her and get all the info from her. But until then, it doesn’t matter and she doesn’t need to be aware. It’s nothing to do with the internal investigation, they don’t need to pause the internal investigation and their decision to dismiss this employee has nothing to do with whether or not the police charge him, or he is found not guilty at court. They are totally separate.

But me officially knowing or not has no relevance to a workplace matter that I'm investigating

Your workplace has messed up.

Any violent incident should be reported to the police and they should be the ones investigating.

Any decent company would also immediately suspend and then sack any staff member who was violent on work premises for gross misconduct.

This person could attack someone else as well and the company has a duty of care towards their staff.

In my considerable experience, a nervous HR team is the equivalent of a tractor spraying slurry - they are very, very keen to make sure the shit hits as many fans as possible.

I can't really comment on whether you've made an error or not asking that question, but while a victim's idea of restorative might influence outcome in some cases it only holds a tiny bit of weight.

Say someone with access to cash had stolen from a colleague.

The colleague might say 'well, I know Jemima is really struggling to feed her kids, if she pays it back and says sorry then I don't think she should lose her job.'

The business will 100% think differently and likely dismiss, because they can't trust Jemima around their money.

It doesn't really matter that this comment is written down, because it's not a grievance.

If there were questions that HR did not want you to ask of be included in the report, they should have told you this explicitly before the investigation started. Although the HR manager has been somewhat reassuring, there’s still an implication that you’ve done something wrong if they’ve told you it isn’t ‘a huge issue’ . It sounds like you haven’t been guided or supported through this process, which would be grounds for an HR complaint in its own right

In terms of a victim statement and how this might impact a potential appeal, the victims opinion is important ( I would personally argue that you having asked them for it would make them less likely to take their own grievance with your workplace for not ensuring their safety, but that’s just my own opinion) but ultimately it is how they feel - that doesn’t override company policy.

I would also argue that if the victims wish for them not to lose their job is included in black and white, it could reduce the likelihood of any further incidents or repercussions from the person who has been violent towards the victim

So in summary, you really shouldn’t worry about anything you have done, and might consider raising with you HR head the way his team have dealt with this and spoken to you - it seems like more of a learning opportunity for them than you!