Think I've seriously eff'd up

[Scaredofet]

Hi all

I think I've massively messed up an investigation at work and I've not slept for 2 days, just wondering how bad this is please.

I was appointed as investigating officer for a violent attack that happened last week.

There wasn't a grievance meeting, it was not required due to it being a report of violence and company needing to address asap.

I just needed to get the statements from everyone and ask q's etc.

But, I slipped into grievance meeting mode with the victim and asked the q regarding their ideal resolution 😭 i made sure to say the q doesnt necessarily mean it could be resolved as they wish but thsts asked as we'd genuinely wanted to hear what they had to say about resolution etc etc. and that's all noted. The victim really appreciated being asked the q and surprisingly didn't say the other person should be sacked, they just wanted to be put on another shift so they'd never see them again.

Obviously this q is in the notes THAT HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE PERP in their info pack 😩

Peraonnel are saying that q from me is probably going to give them grounds to appeal (obviously i dont know what the decision will be but I'd be astounded if it's not dismissal) and apparently all the higher management team are really pissed off at the prospect they might get away with it on a technicality 😭

I honestly feel sick and I don't know what to do 😔 I've not really eaten since Monday. I love my job and I've never had any problems in 37 years of working. Is there any way I'm not massively in the shit here or shall I just leave? ☹️

Thanks all, managed to get some sleep finally. I'm so tired.

I do feel a bit less worried now I guess, funny how sleep does help you think clearer.

Tbf I know they still need to follow process even if it was violent. I think we're all just a bit nervy as it's the first time there's been anything like this.

Personnel saying they had to send the notes as they were as the victim had signed them. I do get where they are coming from.

"Personnel department" yes this does make us all laugh, it's a very old fashioned company.

Am relieved to see its possibly not the end of the world....i think part of me wanted to let the victim know they were being listened to, so not exactly unbiased with that but I am now very glad they said they just wanted to be moved, at least if the other one is dismissed that shows it was a completely independent decision?

I hope the Police have been informed

Sometimes the thought of what may happen because you said or did the wrong thing is far worse than the reality. Trust me, I know!
It sounds like you did the right thing and handled everything in a sympathetic manner.

I don't know if they were informed, I did hear a rumour they were but I'm assuming I wouldn't be informed in case it biased the investigation? Oh the irony.....

This would be the course of action at any place I have worked.

I don't understand why this isn't the case in this instance.

Are the police involved?

I understand that even with something as serious as this they still need to go through the right channels? They can't just sack someone?

They need to do things properly but it is a sackable offence.

I don't understand why they shared the victims account with them. That seems a huge breech and unnecessary. They needed to have got the other persons side independently.

This isn't on you op.

People are asking if the police have been involved and you say you don't know. You need to know, because if there is a police investigation (and it sounds like there should be) you will be required to place any internal investigation on hold until the police investigation has concluded.

Honestly if this was an attack, i would have thought normal procedure was to call police first and let them conduct investigation and then disciplinary happens after that. Potentially alleged perpetrator is suspended on full pay pending police outcome. Certainly when I have been involved in something a while ago that was the way we did it.

Tbf it is normal, or IME anyway that the victims account is shared as part of the disciplinary info so the other person has all the info they are being, don't know what the word is, judged against?? I've done grievance hearings where those aren't shared but if it's an account of something that is shared.

I’m not sure what you have done is that bad. Even if it does have a negative consequence it’s not your fault. You were doing your best and you are human. We all make mistakes.

The main thing I’m hearing is that you made sure the victim felt heard so in my book that’s the key thing.

What I don’t get us that if it’s violence why is it not the police doing the investigation?

This!

I'm really surprised the police are not involved and the person isn't suspended until the police investigation is done.

Agreed! I can't think of any job where that wouldn't be the normal course of action if they had assaulted a colleague?

It's also very concerning that you are supposedly the one investigating this and yet you don't know if the police have been informed?

They are suspended and I think the police are involved but given they didn't follow up a report I made when I was assaulted on the street under a cctv I doubt they will move quickly 😕

Police involvement is very relevant to the situation, your personal experience is not. You have to pause an internal investigation until the outcome of the criminal investigation, or you are running the risk of prejudicing it. Does your company have anyone qualified in the HR dept? Who is advising you on process here?

You were the investigating officer so you gather information but the outcome comes from the disciplinary hearing and whoever the disciplinary officer is. It's up to them, not you. You haven't done anything wrong that I can see. I have to do investigations every so often and I find it v irritating . Should be an HR job.

youve done nothing wrong op. Sounds like HR are scapegoating you based on their own nerves about how to handle their first assault in the workplace situation.

The comment from the victim is not grounds for appeal. The employer has a duty of care to all employees and that has to be their stance.
it could be deemed that the victim said this because they are scared of the perp and know that what they say is going to be sent to their attacker.
so employer has to deal with this based on fact and not in isolation of victims feeling.

This is the only post worth reading.

People included a statement from the victim of a violent assault, in information sent to the perpetrator...? Rather than worrying about the perpetrator's feelings, HR should maybe be worrying about whether what they've done has put the victim at risk of more violence and intimidation. Does the victim know their information has been shared with the person who attacked them?

I agree with other PP & think you asking this question is also irrelevant . As investigating officer your job is to get full facts from both parties and witnesses so the disciplinary team can make their decision.
Despite the victim not necessarily wanting them sacked the disciplinary team are completely within in their rights to do so on grounds of risk to others , breech of trust etc . Look at it in another way , if the misconduct was theft of belongings the victim might just want their belongings back but the act of theft is such a risk & breech of trust to the business that the position is untenable
I would stand your ground and state that whilst the question wasn’t necessary it’s certainly not damaging ( I don’t think a tribunal would take much notice of it tbh)
Good luck, it sounds like a very stressful situation and hope it’s resolved soon

This is absolutely not true.

Any criminal investigation by the police is completely separate to the investigation instigated by an employer, but doesn't stop the employer from taking appropriate action. It could be months before he is charged by police... do you think he should be suspended on full pay for the duration? Until when... when he is charged, or found guilty, or sentenced? It's nonsense. An employer just needs to establish a reasonable belief, not prove things beyond reasonable doubt.

Yes, this is reasonably deemed gross misconduct, but the employer must conduct an investigation, then have a disciplinary hearing by a different officer, offering the right to be accompanied, the right to appeal etc, all supported by HR but without HR making decisions. This is all standard practice for employers, to make safe disciplinary decisions that don't come back to bite.

Being hasty, dismissing someone on the spot, having HR do the investigation or dismiss someone... these would all put the employer at risk of an ET finding that the person was unfairly dismissed and compensated accordingly, and/or given their job back!