slow quiet one, and the micromanager

[snoopsy]

I manage a large team, all remote. We have a new admin person who hasn't been with us long (7 weeks). The new admin is pleasant, but has a very quiet personality. I have done some of her training and she is slow and methodical. The manager who manages the admin is a hard-worker but known to be difficult - likes control, gives little leeway on methods used - its her way or nothing, expects people to operate at 100% all the time etc. calls people outside of working hours (I have put a stop to this one).

The previous admin only lasted 8 months before handing in their notice as they felt the pace the manager was setting was too fast, and there was too much to juggle. As a result, I simplified some processes, and automated others to make the workload more manageable and less hectic. I removed a small area of responsibility too so I am confident the job spec is do-able.

I wonder if the admin potentially has some health issues which means she's having to go to the bathroom. She has mentioned some auto-immune/allergy issues, but has not been specific. I am thinking a side-effect of her health issues may be IBS or a more serious digestive issue, but this is me guessing. We are all remote so its difficult to know what people are doing.

I suppose I have 2 questions:
I have no problem with the admin being methodical, but she is taking nearly 3 hours to do a 30-45 minute admin task that I know she can do competently. After 7 weeks I know she has mastered how to do it as I have done some of her training. I need to work out if the admin a) has health issues she is too shy to disclose, or b) is actually this slow, or c) is doing something else with her time.

If during those 3 hours she was in the bathroom for some time then I don't mind, but I do need to know. There are ways to work around her health issues as we are all remote, but I can't put anything in place unless I know. I have a reputation for being kind and understanding (or so I am told). How do I approach this? I do not want to say "it took you 3 hours to do this. what's the problem?" It would come across that I am monitoring her, which is wrong.

The second issue is how I deal with the "difficult" manager. Their manager skills only work with the kind of employee who works like a robot and has perfect attention to detail. I need to speak to this person about how we onboard new people and make sure we are doing everything possible to help them learn their job. The manager has talked about "testing" the new admin (eg setting them up to fail) and won't entertain the idea that there could be another issue. They are convinced this person is doing something else with their time (eg watching TV). They are frustrated and don't have the patience to realise that after 7 weeks, if its not working they need to employ different methods to solve the problem of slowness (a shared things to do list, for example) before we judge or jump to conclusions.

the problems with an entirely remote workforce unfortunately

I need to speak to this person about how we onboard new people and make sure we are doing everything possible to help them learn their job.

Well, yes you do. Some time ago actually

nootcoffee - thanks for offering absolutely no useful advice. just criticising. What is the point of you even using energy to type?

@snoopsy “ I do not want to say "it took you 3 hours to do this. what's the problem?" It would come across that I am monitoring her, which is wrong.”

why is it wrong to monitor what your staff are doing?! Seriously, isn’t it your job to oversee her work being done in a timely fashion?

and why did I never find jobs where managers didn’t want to manage 😂

heavens

I imagine this team is as toxic as hell!

Good luck to the new starter i say

That's a bit unfair

It may not be useful but it's a factual comment

Wfh IS the issue here

🙂

I do want to manage. And I am a very good manager with 6 other direct reports who are doing a fantastic job. My method of managing people is to monitor their output and not the time they spend away from their desk. I don't want to put her in a position where she is too uncomfortable to tell me what's really wrong.
By posting this I was hoping someone who had experienced something similar as a manager or perhaps someone who has health problems and didn't feel comfortable speaking up might offer their perspective.

I do not want to say "it took you 3 hours to do this. what's the problem?"

why not? You’re completely overthinking this. It’s a very clear situation - you know she can do the task, you know what a reasonable time frame is.

There are miles and miles of middle ground between your softly, softly approach and your colleagues robotic one.

I think you do need to say "this task took you 3 hours, what's the problem?" Or maybe "can I check that you understand how to do x task OK as I noticed it took you 3 hours to complete it?"

She's right though, your post wasn't constructive, just a cheap shot at remote workers/working.

WFH is not the issue. I want a way to resolve this without making WFH the issue. In fact, if this lady really does have some bowel issues, WFH is the best option for her and I want to try and make this work for her as far as I can.
WFH may be a factor in delaying working out what's wrong, but its not the issue. I actually think WFH is the solution - I just need this lady to feel comfortable talking to me.

Why worry. The micromanager who wants everything done their way robotically will drive every admin away sooner rather than later.

My team isn't toxic because there are no people who would just sit there and criticise.

@snoopsy to clarify, do you have responsibility for managing the ‘difficult manager’? If you do, you need to work with them to develop a wider range of people skills so that they are able to manage their staff more effectively. It is in no one’s interests to pay to recruit, onboard and train someone and then immediately get rid of them. So this manager needs to change their behaviours.

As for the ‘slow’ admin person, this is a classic can’t do or won’t do management dilemma. It’s not clear which is the issue at this point. You (or whoever is in charge of their delivery in role - the ‘difficult manager’?) need to have a formal meeting to understand how they think they are doing and ensuring they have clarity on expectations; they need to know they are working more slowly than expected. Invite them to share any challenges. Ask specifically about how their condition affects their work (if at all). Agree goals and a management/support/monitoring plan. And then stick to this.

you are not doing either of these individuals nor the wider team any favours by watching from the sidelines, feeling sad.

@snoopsy you can't focus in on one issue. It's fine to measure peoples' performance and help them if they are failing. So step one is performance metrics for the entire team, whether that's with project management software or a simple time sheet.

At the end of the process, you first talk to your manager, and then to each of the employees - it's not a blame process, but a helping one. If someone is taking an excessively long time, you discuss it with them as part of the process, without singling anyone out, then offer support and training.

This is a good example of how to phrase

it’s not as complicated as you are making it

tbh if she has health issues that would affect task timing, you need to know - and the only way to find out is to audit how she spends her time or comment on the time taken to do specific things.

otherwise you are asking for mind reading equipment!

I mean, you have to go straight to the source first and give her a nudge.
So I'd go about it like this:
Employer: 'Hey, just wanted to check how you were getting on with Task X, is everything making sense to you? Just wanted to check in case you wanted to go back over anything'
Admin: 'Nope, all good, thank you!'
Employer: 'Great, and how are you doing so far on time, once you are fully settled in we'd expect it to be done in about 45 minutes, but obviously while you are still learning it can take you a bit longer - do you think you are on your way to being able to do it in that time?'

And then the conversation follows on from there. Some might disagree on this! I just think that coming at it from a place of 'do you have any barriers' first, saves you time later on, because people like to go 'yes, il be quicker' then you spend two weeks watching them not be quicker, THEN they will go 'well actually I'm not sure on x y and z' so this way you cut out the middle man AND they know you are paying attention to how much time you are taking. I'd then check in again in a week.
More than happy for someone to tell me this is a wrong approach though!

No it's not. Not all managers are micromanaging arseholes who set people up to fail.

Even my micromanaging manager isn't vindictive like that. (I'm still getting a new job over it, though.)

No… you have a team where someone is taking 3 hours to do a 40 minute job

a line manager who has a history of micromanaging and being fundamentally really unpleasant

and you have the boss asking mumsnet what to do and seems to think just speaking to the new starter frankly is absolutely out of the question

Sounds positively thriving and healthy

Is the new recruit missing deadlines? Or could it be that she's completing the work st a time that suits her whilst she juggles other bits of work? I often have bits to complete which only take 10minutes, but as a result will get put on the back burner until I've got ten minutes or when other stuff isn't in the way. Could it be she isn't aware of the time frames you are expecting her to work in, so if you.say "please can you do this task for me" she's just assuming it needs to be done at some point that morning rather than immediately? That could be very company culture specific. Does she know you're waiting on her?
Rather than asking about competency, I'd start setting expectations when allocating work "Hi Sarah, please can you completely xxxx by 11am as I need to send the data onto payroll". If she's then not completing in time I'd raise it as a performance issue.

i wasn’t referring to that in particular

read the op

I agree with this. It’s the crux of the issue.

you could say ‘ I haven’t been monitoring your other tasks, but I couldn’t help noticing that when I asked you to do X, it took 3 hours- I’d normally expect it to take 30 minutes. I appreciate you might still be getting your head around the job, so wanted to check if there’s anything causing problems?’

If no reason is forthcoming, then I think you need to get her to talk through how she did it - you can the offer tips to speed up the process.

and also bring up health if appropriate…‘I’ve noticed you have stated a couple of medical issues- what can we do to help you manage those during work?’

thanks, this is the kind of advice I was asking for. Thank you. I directly maange the difficult manager. However, I must point out that I am not watching from the sidelines or feeling sad. I am actively getting involved in the admin's training so that I can make sure they are receiving the best start and that they can get to know me and hopefully feel confident to talk to me. I have also told the difficult manager to think about how their mentality is affecting the new starter's confidence. I have held meetings with the three of us where I have taken the lead on training and modelled the behaviour I expect the "difficult" manger to use when training. I was kind and patient and I followed up with some clear notes and screenshots for the admin person. Its hard to listen and take notes at the same time. I took the time to write up some clear steps with screenshots. It is difficult as we are all remote and I am not present when they meet just the two of them on Teams.

because I lead the team and its my ultimate responsibility to make sure people are happy in their jobs. we need a good admin person to feel confident to take the reins. I don't want high staff turnover in my team which is why I am asking a twofold question: how to gently find out what is problematic for the new admin, and how to work on the "difficult" manager's people skills.

this is the kind of objective and helpful post I needed. When you're stuck in the middle of all of this with time pressure to complete tasks its hard to see the wood from the trees. I'm so busy its hard to even articulate my words at the moment! so thank you. sometimes reading how somebody else would word it gives you all the perspective you need.