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slow quiet one, and the micromanager

130 replies

snoopsy · 02/10/2024 14:00

I manage a large team, all remote. We have a new admin person who hasn't been with us long (7 weeks). The new admin is pleasant, but has a very quiet personality. I have done some of her training and she is slow and methodical. The manager who manages the admin is a hard-worker but known to be difficult - likes control, gives little leeway on methods used - its her way or nothing, expects people to operate at 100% all the time etc. calls people outside of working hours (I have put a stop to this one).

The previous admin only lasted 8 months before handing in their notice as they felt the pace the manager was setting was too fast, and there was too much to juggle. As a result, I simplified some processes, and automated others to make the workload more manageable and less hectic. I removed a small area of responsibility too so I am confident the job spec is do-able.

I wonder if the admin potentially has some health issues which means she's having to go to the bathroom. She has mentioned some auto-immune/allergy issues, but has not been specific. I am thinking a side-effect of her health issues may be IBS or a more serious digestive issue, but this is me guessing. We are all remote so its difficult to know what people are doing.

I suppose I have 2 questions:
I have no problem with the admin being methodical, but she is taking nearly 3 hours to do a 30-45 minute admin task that I know she can do competently. After 7 weeks I know she has mastered how to do it as I have done some of her training. I need to work out if the admin a) has health issues she is too shy to disclose, or b) is actually this slow, or c) is doing something else with her time.

If during those 3 hours she was in the bathroom for some time then I don't mind, but I do need to know. There are ways to work around her health issues as we are all remote, but I can't put anything in place unless I know. I have a reputation for being kind and understanding (or so I am told). How do I approach this? I do not want to say "it took you 3 hours to do this. what's the problem?" It would come across that I am monitoring her, which is wrong.

The second issue is how I deal with the "difficult" manager. Their manager skills only work with the kind of employee who works like a robot and has perfect attention to detail. I need to speak to this person about how we onboard new people and make sure we are doing everything possible to help them learn their job. The manager has talked about "testing" the new admin (eg setting them up to fail) and won't entertain the idea that there could be another issue. They are convinced this person is doing something else with their time (eg watching TV). They are frustrated and don't have the patience to realise that after 7 weeks, if its not working they need to employ different methods to solve the problem of slowness (a shared things to do list, for example) before we judge or jump to conclusions.

OP posts:
mewkins · 02/10/2024 22:38

snoopsy · 02/10/2024 22:06

I am confused. she has had 7 weeks of screen-sharing, which is how I know she knows what to do.

In that case just have a conversation about workload with her and ask her how long it takes to do various tasks. If she says three hours, go through what she's doing . If she says 30 mins, when you have morning meetings ask that she gets them all uploaded by xx.

LadyLapsang · 02/10/2024 22:47

It sounds like you are the new recruit’s countersigning manager. Why don’t you let her manager manage her? It’s great you’ve spent time investing in her training, but surely it doesn’t need two people to go through a shared email inbox with her every morning. I also don’t think it is micromanaging to give people realistic targets, e.g. when you are experienced, you should be able to turn this round in 45 minutes to one hour.

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 14:46

snoopsy · 02/10/2024 16:41

because I lead the team and its my ultimate responsibility to make sure people are happy in their jobs. we need a good admin person to feel confident to take the reins. I don't want high staff turnover in my team which is why I am asking a twofold question: how to gently find out what is problematic for the new admin, and how to work on the "difficult" manager's people skills.

Edited

Surely you have had training on this OP?

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 14:47

All three people in this equation would benefit from training i feel!

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 14:54

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 14:46

Surely you have had training on this OP?

no, not every company has training like this. we are a start-up which has grown from 4 employees to 500 employees in 4 years. i have worked in corporate roles before where there has been training. I am shocked that you think every company gives training. The start-up world is very different from the corporate world. I am a good manager. I have built a good team and scaled up to grow our company. we have low staff turnover in general. it is a good place to work. I see that the "difficult" manager has potential and its my job to guide them. after working closely with the admin girl today. her data entry is very poor and she is taking short-cuts. she is not double-checking any numbers. she's not referring to the instruction documents. her cuting and pasting is not accurate. she doesn't want to take the time to check. these aren't the kinds of things I can help with. her brain doesn't seem to want to work in steps.

OP posts:
nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 15:01

I think it might be worth you investing in some training independently OP

Needless to say, I doubt you’ll agree! But you seem completely out of your depth

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 15:02

How many are in your “large team”?

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 15:03

How long have you been in this role?

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 15:04

today. her data entry is very poor and she is taking short-cuts. she is not double-checking any numbers. she's not referring to the instruction documents. her cuting and pasting is not accurate. she doesn't want to take the time to check. these aren't the kinds of things I can help with. her brain doesn't seem to want to work in steps.

You, if you’re very senior and managing a large team, shouldn’t be spending hours worrying and thinking about how you address this

Baffling

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 03/10/2024 15:07

nootcoffee · 02/10/2024 15:35

I need to speak to this person about how we onboard new people and make sure we are doing everything possible to help them learn their job.

Well, yes you do. Some time ago actually

And they need to know that they have a responsibility for getting/ keeping staff on board and they need to be accountable if they dont have low staff turnover rates

MrSeptember · 03/10/2024 15:17

OP, I think you have two completely different issues, that need two completely different approaches, albeit they can be done in tandem.

Issue 1 is that you have a new joiner who is not getting up to speed with the job spec as quickly as you would like or expect and you need to establish why not so that you can either offer support OR so that you can start managing her out.

Issue 2 is that you have a manager on your team who is not interested in taking on the role of actually managing and adapting for team members and is brusque and overly demanding.

So, for issue 1, during these prioritisation meetings, I would start mentioning that there is a time limit. So as you're going through, you've agreed Task 1 and Task 2 are the most urgent and need to be done promptly at which point you say, "Melissa, do you feel confident those can be done by no later than 10:30 so that Team B can get on with the next step? We need time to get them resolved before close of day." Then, if she says yes, but doesn't meet the deadline, that's a conversation about that. if she says no, she can't meet the deadline, you ask why and what you can do to support her to meet that deadline.

Meanwhile, for issue 2, I'd be talkign to the manager about the fact that it's in the interests of the company and the employee for you all to work together to resolve this and that part of being a manager needs to be figuring out how to solve for these issues. If the person is very direct, very commercially focused, point out that the cost and effort required in exiting someone then hiring and retraining is excessive and getting the existing team up to scratch is much better. Perhaps consider sending them on training for coaching or mentoring or managing.

Having said all of that, I would say that if the new joiner does have som ehealth issues, that is up to them to disclose. You cannot accomodate these issues if you don't know about them. If during the process of her saying she can't meet the deadlines, or consistently missing them, you need to ask her if there's some other factor that is a problem, perhaps outside of work, and can you support her on that.

BatshitIsTheOnlyExplanation · 03/10/2024 15:31

Maybe I missed something, but why does being slow at her work = bowel issues?

ruethewhirl · 03/10/2024 15:34

BatshitIsTheOnlyExplanation · 03/10/2024 15:31

Maybe I missed something, but why does being slow at her work = bowel issues?

Having to keep stopping to go to the toilet, presumably - and then the time taken on the loo.

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 15:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 15:57

ruethewhirl · 03/10/2024 15:34

Having to keep stopping to go to the toilet, presumably - and then the time taken on the loo.

yes, earlier on I explained that I am aware she has some severe auto-immune conditions and allergies. that's why I don't want to discount any health reasons impacting her work, speed and presence. and why I want to try and make it work if a WFH job best suits her needs. but she has not declared anything via HR upon starting so I am unsure how much I should ask vs how much I should allow her to come to me.

OP posts:
rainfallpurevividcat · 03/10/2024 15:58

God, I'd hate that sort of job where someone is watching over my shoulder seeing how long I take to do something and I would hate to have to monitor someone else like that.

Just trust them to do their work but set deadlines. If they aren't keeping to deadlines then pull them up.

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 15:58

MrSeptember · 03/10/2024 15:17

OP, I think you have two completely different issues, that need two completely different approaches, albeit they can be done in tandem.

Issue 1 is that you have a new joiner who is not getting up to speed with the job spec as quickly as you would like or expect and you need to establish why not so that you can either offer support OR so that you can start managing her out.

Issue 2 is that you have a manager on your team who is not interested in taking on the role of actually managing and adapting for team members and is brusque and overly demanding.

So, for issue 1, during these prioritisation meetings, I would start mentioning that there is a time limit. So as you're going through, you've agreed Task 1 and Task 2 are the most urgent and need to be done promptly at which point you say, "Melissa, do you feel confident those can be done by no later than 10:30 so that Team B can get on with the next step? We need time to get them resolved before close of day." Then, if she says yes, but doesn't meet the deadline, that's a conversation about that. if she says no, she can't meet the deadline, you ask why and what you can do to support her to meet that deadline.

Meanwhile, for issue 2, I'd be talkign to the manager about the fact that it's in the interests of the company and the employee for you all to work together to resolve this and that part of being a manager needs to be figuring out how to solve for these issues. If the person is very direct, very commercially focused, point out that the cost and effort required in exiting someone then hiring and retraining is excessive and getting the existing team up to scratch is much better. Perhaps consider sending them on training for coaching or mentoring or managing.

Having said all of that, I would say that if the new joiner does have som ehealth issues, that is up to them to disclose. You cannot accomodate these issues if you don't know about them. If during the process of her saying she can't meet the deadlines, or consistently missing them, you need to ask her if there's some other factor that is a problem, perhaps outside of work, and can you support her on that.

one of the most helpful and intelligent suggestions, thank you. you summarise it very well.

OP posts:
snoopsy · 03/10/2024 16:00

rainfallpurevividcat · 03/10/2024 15:58

God, I'd hate that sort of job where someone is watching over my shoulder seeing how long I take to do something and I would hate to have to monitor someone else like that.

Just trust them to do their work but set deadlines. If they aren't keeping to deadlines then pull them up.

oh my goodness, this whole post is about the best approach to go about pulling them up. I think there may be health issues. its a very very delicate subject to approach.

OP posts:
nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 16:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

the “award”? and what was that for? management? because that’s what this thread is about 🫤

How long have you been in this role op

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 16:01

@MrSeptember

you sound like a brilliant manager

ruethewhirl · 03/10/2024 16:05

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 15:57

yes, earlier on I explained that I am aware she has some severe auto-immune conditions and allergies. that's why I don't want to discount any health reasons impacting her work, speed and presence. and why I want to try and make it work if a WFH job best suits her needs. but she has not declared anything via HR upon starting so I am unsure how much I should ask vs how much I should allow her to come to me.

It's tricky, speaking as someone with health issues that impact how and where I can work. She may not want to be completely open about this in case it affects how she's perceived at work.

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 16:05

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 15:04

today. her data entry is very poor and she is taking short-cuts. she is not double-checking any numbers. she's not referring to the instruction documents. her cuting and pasting is not accurate. she doesn't want to take the time to check. these aren't the kinds of things I can help with. her brain doesn't seem to want to work in steps.

You, if you’re very senior and managing a large team, shouldn’t be spending hours worrying and thinking about how you address this

Baffling

this morning I had no choice but to really get down to the nitty gritty and this is what I discovered. I needed to know where she needs help. Attention to detail really is something that comes naturally to a person - I believe its in the brain wiring. I have often found that you can pull someone up on attention to detail, and it will be OK for a few weeks, and then the inconsistency creeps back in. Attention to detail is an executive function. Remedial action is an executive function. Some people are strong on these, and some aren't. Just like some people are natural at art or dance or singing, and some people simply don't have rhythm or the ability to translate things on a page. there is only so much you can teach people, and the rest needs to be a natural leaning.

I was asking for advice about how to address the WHOLE issue. There is a huge possibility there are health needs I need to take into account. approaching them is hard as she is remote and very quiet. If there aren't health issues then I need to think about replacing her before Q4 gets busy. I have been asking for advice on any similar situations. I am not worrying about anything, I am gathering as much info as possible to make and take some informed decisions.

OP posts:
snoopsy · 03/10/2024 16:08

sorry replying to ruethewhirl · Today 16:05

It's tricky, speaking as someone with health issues that impact how and where I can work. She may not want to be completely open about this in case it affects how she's perceived at work.

my response
exactly that, I wanted her to feel that she could come and speak to me. There are lots of accommodations I can make if she needs time away each morning due to IBS for example. I wanted to hear from people with similar experiences. I have absolutely no idea if there are health issues but I didn't want to discount it. I also know some companies will use health issues against employees. We are not like that, but we do need transparency so we can help in the right areas.

OP posts:
nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 16:17

you really don’t want to say how many are in this team and how long you’ve been in this position 🤷

Anyway, looks like you’ve got good guidance re how to handle this new starter admin worker

snoopsy · 03/10/2024 16:18

nootcoffee · 03/10/2024 16:17

you really don’t want to say how many are in this team and how long you’ve been in this position 🤷

Anyway, looks like you’ve got good guidance re how to handle this new starter admin worker

I am quite happy to. have I been asked and avoided it?

OP posts:
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