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Employees's personal tragedies affecting work

118 replies

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 08:29

I run a small business. This means every team member has significant responsibilities.

One of the employees has been having personal tragedy after tragedy this year. Since January when he had his first issue, he has struggled to perform. I have given him grace, extended deadlines, given more support and offered to pay for private counseling. The situation has not improved.
In July we had a frank conversation about him needing to pull his socks and try to work through his personal issues- he dwells on them and doesn't seem to be trying to find a way out.

Now things have gotten worse- his mother passed away last week and he has been off work since (as he should)- but I have piles and piles of outstanding work he has not completed that has now become urgent, and I cannot afford to hire an alternative resource. I know when he returns to work after his leave he is going to be in a worse state that we need to manage compassionately.
But how do I balance the empathy and ensuring the business needs are met?

OP posts:
Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:07

HowardTJMoon · 09/09/2024 10:00

As you're a small business I'm guessing you don't have any kind of Employee Assistance Programme. But could you see your way to helping him get some counselling? I've been through something similar to what this chap has, albeit over a longer period of time, and having someone to talk to via my EAP was really helpful.

I pay for a service for employees to have access to round the clock counseling. I implored him to use it back in April, and even offered to directly pay a separate private service. He keeps saying he will use it or will come back to me with the second offer for a private facility- to this date.

OP posts:
Devonshiregal · 09/09/2024 10:11

And this is why only the rich can have businesses. Because there’s no help if you have a situation out of your control like this. And everyone acts like you’re a dick for being stressed that you’re paying for someone to not do their work.

shes not running a charity - she doesn’t pay people for the fun of it. There’s a job they needs doing. She HAS been compassionate for 8 months. Now he’s suffered another tragedy. It’s awful and she feels terrible for him but is worried about her business so posted here asking for advice. That’s ok! Why is everyone trying to make her out like a monster?

op, I think you need to get legal advice and figure out exactly how to handle this appropriately. And at the same time find out what government support financially or otherwise there is for small businesses in situations like this. And also do as another poster said get the work distributed or find ways to get rid of anything that doesn’t need doing.

also document everything and all conversations in writing as he’s in a desperate situation so will be likely to grab for resources anywhere he can/lash out if he feels hard done by.

this is just reality, and self protection, doesn’t mean you can’t also feel awful and be kind to him.

(but defo don’t sack him straight after bereavement leave!)

MeowCatPleaseMeowBack · 09/09/2024 10:14

You don't seem to be getting that this isn't one issue he's been struggling with for eight months. It's multiple life-altering events one on top of the other. How on earth you can sit there and say he's wallowing and not trying to move on is frankly monstrous. I'd like to see you deal with what he has - I bet you wouldn't be coping nearly so well.

JoyousPinkPeer · 09/09/2024 10:15

You've done more than many wod to help him. I would allow him 2 weeks off then sit him down and say if he's off again it will be without pay. Remind him how much time he's had off. Tell him things have to improve as tge business us suffering.

Startingagainandagain · 09/09/2024 10:19

Do you really think piling on even more stress by starting disciplinary procedures is going to achieve anything?

I assume the result will just be him going on long term sick leave...

You really need to find a temp to tackle the backlog.

You should also suggests he drops his hours part-time or if feasible work from home for a while.

You seem to just expect someone who has been through multiple trauma to just carry on as usual. He is a human being, not a machine...

He is not 'slacking' by the way, which would imply he is doing on purpose through laziness. He just sounds like he is overwhelmed and struggling to cope.

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:19

onfiree · 09/09/2024 10:03

Honestly you sound like a poor employer. This sort of thing ends up at tribunals.

firstly seek proper advice relevant to your own country

You seem to be forcing him to get back to work without realising he’s likely considered a disabled person. I’m shocked I haven’t heard you mention occupational health once. He doesn’t sound capable enough to work but it’s not an immediate route to dismissal.

I gave him 4 weeks in January. He was not entitled to any time off legally here, but it was morally the right thing to do so that he could organize things of getting his daughter to live with him.
I have obtained advice and his situation doesn't constitute disability here. So I am mostly working from my own discretion to give him time off (eg, no legal obligation for compassionate leave, but I give all employees 5 days paid leave.
Paid sick leave is 20 days a year, he has already used around 15 of it this year.
I was trying to avoid him going on unpaid leave as there is no unemployment benefits.

OP posts:
PfishFood · 09/09/2024 10:24

Do you have an HR service @Project2024 ? We are a small business too and I have had to call on them to help with various matters in the past, and they will (at a cost, of course) deal with a disciplinary process if needed.

It is awful though, for everyone involved. As a small business owner myself, I want to run my business so that everyone works together well to achieve our work, but also to be a flexible environment where we know that family comes first.

Unfortunately, situations like this can and do happen and because you're a small team you end up personally and professionally torn.

If I could, I'd do anything possible to make my staff's personal life better, but at some point your business head has to take over to stop you compromising your own business. It is a difficult balance to find sometimes, which is where our external support provider became a god send.

I think ultimately in the first instance you need a frank conversation with him when he comes back. Acknowledge his difficulties and issues, but explain that as a business you need more from him and if he isn't going to be able to give more, then he needs to go see his GP to be signed off. Ultimately, it's either him being signed off, or you'll have no choice but to go down a disciplinary route. I'd probably even say "I really don't want to have to do that as I know what a tough time you've had, but the business just can't afford to carry on like this."

I'm not sure about the rules where you are, but if he's off and not being paid, then at least it frees up some resources to get you a temp.

AllTipAndNoIceberg · 09/09/2024 10:28

Lincoln24 · 09/09/2024 09:55

Part of running a business means anticipating and having contingencies in place for employees that are not able to perform at 100%. I have managed staff for a long time and there are many reasons why someone might not be able to meet all targets, but you cannot always deal with this through a disciplinary process. The next time it might be a pregnant employee or someone who has been diagnosed with a condition - what will you do then? You won't be able to continue this tough shit approach, it's not appropriate in all situations and it's not appropriate here.

As a business owner you need to have funds available to either pay for temps, offer a lower-paid member of staff a temporary promotion, or ask someone to work overtime. If the answer to this is that there is no spare money at all to do this, then your business is not viable, because sooner or later you will incur this type of additional staffing cost - it's part and parcel of employing a team. If the answer is that the money is there but you don't want to spend it, then I am afraid you have misunderstood what being an employer means and before long you will end up with legal action against you.

Some excellent points here. I’m hoping the OP will address them. @Project2024

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 10:29

If you’re not sure what to do I think you could maybe treat him as you would like an employer to treat you if the roles were reversed.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 10:32

Startingagainandagain · 09/09/2024 10:19

Do you really think piling on even more stress by starting disciplinary procedures is going to achieve anything?

I assume the result will just be him going on long term sick leave...

You really need to find a temp to tackle the backlog.

You should also suggests he drops his hours part-time or if feasible work from home for a while.

You seem to just expect someone who has been through multiple trauma to just carry on as usual. He is a human being, not a machine...

He is not 'slacking' by the way, which would imply he is doing on purpose through laziness. He just sounds like he is overwhelmed and struggling to cope.

100% this.

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:32

Thank you to everyone who has provided tips from a balanced point of view. 🙏🏽🙏🏽

OP posts:
blackcatstotallyrule · 09/09/2024 10:34

Lincoln24 · 09/09/2024 09:55

Part of running a business means anticipating and having contingencies in place for employees that are not able to perform at 100%. I have managed staff for a long time and there are many reasons why someone might not be able to meet all targets, but you cannot always deal with this through a disciplinary process. The next time it might be a pregnant employee or someone who has been diagnosed with a condition - what will you do then? You won't be able to continue this tough shit approach, it's not appropriate in all situations and it's not appropriate here.

As a business owner you need to have funds available to either pay for temps, offer a lower-paid member of staff a temporary promotion, or ask someone to work overtime. If the answer to this is that there is no spare money at all to do this, then your business is not viable, because sooner or later you will incur this type of additional staffing cost - it's part and parcel of employing a team. If the answer is that the money is there but you don't want to spend it, then I am afraid you have misunderstood what being an employer means and before long you will end up with legal action against you.

This. And honestly OP you sound on thin ice legally - has he had an occupational health assessment?

blackcatstotallyrule · 09/09/2024 10:35

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:19

I gave him 4 weeks in January. He was not entitled to any time off legally here, but it was morally the right thing to do so that he could organize things of getting his daughter to live with him.
I have obtained advice and his situation doesn't constitute disability here. So I am mostly working from my own discretion to give him time off (eg, no legal obligation for compassionate leave, but I give all employees 5 days paid leave.
Paid sick leave is 20 days a year, he has already used around 15 of it this year.
I was trying to avoid him going on unpaid leave as there is no unemployment benefits.

Has he had an occupational health assessment? I’m sceptical that you’ve been advised he’s not disabled for equality act purposes without one of these.

onfiree · 09/09/2024 10:35

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:19

I gave him 4 weeks in January. He was not entitled to any time off legally here, but it was morally the right thing to do so that he could organize things of getting his daughter to live with him.
I have obtained advice and his situation doesn't constitute disability here. So I am mostly working from my own discretion to give him time off (eg, no legal obligation for compassionate leave, but I give all employees 5 days paid leave.
Paid sick leave is 20 days a year, he has already used around 15 of it this year.
I was trying to avoid him going on unpaid leave as there is no unemployment benefits.

I wouldn’t be confident that his situation couldn’t constitute a disability, as it’s developing. Difficult life circumstances could lead to a mental disability ie impact to work expected to last for 12+ months. To cover your back, you should be “soft” during this time. Not “hard”. I’ve seen cases before where employees become disabled over time. It’s definitely frustrating for some managers but unfortunately it’s part and parcel of dealing with people management.

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:37

@blackcatstotallyrule @onfiree please read to understand. I am in a different country and your interpretations of what is legally feasible are irrelevant.

OP posts:
blackcatstotallyrule · 09/09/2024 10:37

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:37

@blackcatstotallyrule @onfiree please read to understand. I am in a different country and your interpretations of what is legally feasible are irrelevant.

Not sure why you’re posting on a British forum for advice then

Lovelysummerdays · 09/09/2024 10:40

AllTipAndNoIceberg · 09/09/2024 09:24

But why would you have taken a “disciplinary route”? That wouldn’t be justified under the circumstances, surely?

And yes, being supportive and compassionate in your manner towards him is important, but it’s only meaningful if backed up with supportive and compassionate actions.

I run a business, not a charity

^^ That’s almost comically out of step with your claims of compassion

When you run a business you have to be aware of cash flow and resources. Would it be fair to OP and the other employees for the business to go under? 8 months is a long time for an employee to be underperforming. I think actually should of acted sooner in line with employment contract because you’ve cut them slack it becomes impossible to draw the line without looking heartless.

I’ll be honest I’m not always the best employee, I have dc and am juggling work, school run, after school stuff with a full time job. So I work for a large employer who doesn’t pay well but is flexible, can catch up by wfh.

It might very well be that he needs to find a job that’s a better fit for his changed circumstances.

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:40

@blackcatstotallyrule I explained that I am not looking for legal advice but general business advice on how to deal with this.
MN is not exclusively for UK residents, at least that has not been my experience- even at the time I joined it 10 years ago when I still lived in London.

OP posts:
blackcatstotallyrule · 09/09/2024 10:41

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:40

@blackcatstotallyrule I explained that I am not looking for legal advice but general business advice on how to deal with this.
MN is not exclusively for UK residents, at least that has not been my experience- even at the time I joined it 10 years ago when I still lived in London.

It’s really hard to separate ‘business advice’ from legal advice though.

AgnesX · 09/09/2024 10:43

This reply has been deleted

We've withdrawn this post on the OP's behalf as she was concerned it might be identifying.

He's not exactly slacking then. I can understand his mental health being shot to pieces, his support network has been decimated.

Putting him under more pressure by way of a disciplinary is really unfair (and not exactly empathetic).

Suggest that you suggest he takes sick leave.

Ted22 · 09/09/2024 10:44

You should be paying for a temp to take on some of his work, and/or doing it yourself / paying some overtime to other staff to do it.

This man isn’t skiving and making things up. He’s having a horrific year. You have a duty of care to him. It’s better to keep a loyal employee and support them, than bin him off during the most tragic time in his life and try and replace him. Your other staff will remember the way you treated this man.

onfiree · 09/09/2024 10:48

Project2024 · 09/09/2024 10:37

@blackcatstotallyrule @onfiree please read to understand. I am in a different country and your interpretations of what is legally feasible are irrelevant.

I already said you should seek advice relevant to your country. Though if you’re really wanting input from mumsnet, you’d get better quality responses if you noted which country you’re in.

Ultimately the law does influence “business advice”. If one country has non-existent employment laws, then the business practices of that country will be tailored accordingly.

ClockwiseHoneysuckle · 09/09/2024 10:48

onfiree · 09/09/2024 10:03

Honestly you sound like a poor employer. This sort of thing ends up at tribunals.

firstly seek proper advice relevant to your own country

You seem to be forcing him to get back to work without realising he’s likely considered a disabled person. I’m shocked I haven’t heard you mention occupational health once. He doesn’t sound capable enough to work but it’s not an immediate route to dismissal.

This person is nowhere near fitting the UK definition of a disabled person, and that is likely to be the case elsewhere. OP has already gone above and beyond to help him. You need to read all her posts.

BettyBa · 09/09/2024 10:49

To be honest OP you are out of step with how most UK managers deal with this sort of issue nowadays so there’s very little point asking a UK forum for advice. I am pretty horrified by some of the things you have written. Your risk as the business owner is entirely different to the rights and obligations of your employees.

In this country I would expect an employee in this situation you describe to probably be on long term mental health sickness, and then a roadmap introduced and agreed to support him gradually back into work.

Find your local country’s business advisory services and ask for help there.

Supersimkin7 · 09/09/2024 10:54

Not everyone works in the public sector! No one’s giving OP money. Or emergency extra money, or support. Of any kind.

She’s making money. That we all need. Small businesses need the money they make - not given - to function. Not negotiable.

OP, book lunch and suggest the poor man goes part time. If he’s too ill to work, let him
tell you and help him with benefit applications.

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