Mums forced into office by big UK company?

[MM90]

I work for a big, well-known company. The bosses are considering plans to force all colleagues to come to the office 3 days a week. They are thinking about checking our turnstile data individually and disciplining anyone who doesn’t come in for 3 days every week, whether they need to be there or not. I thought this was the 21st century where working women have the chance to create a sensible work / life balance so long as they perform in their job. My line manager gave me a great performance rating during Covid. I have two children under 5 and no family nearby. Any thoughts on this?

Not sure about this. Sadly there are plenty of people who don’t WFH, who are slow and poorly trained. WFH is just geography, and has no bearing on your customer service style

So quit? It’s simple, if you don’t like it, leave

I worked for... a major, household name multimedia organisation. The bosses forced everyone back into the office, five days a week, even people who worked anti-social shifts, within days of lockdown ending. They were really heartless about it. The result? Most of the women left. I think Labour is looking at formalising wfh requests - I don't know the details. I know there are bad stories on Mumsnet about parents taking the Mickey with wfh, but I don't think that's the norm - certainly not in my experience.

wfh is a really important feature of a work-life balance for many people, including families, and a lot of people work faster and more efficiently when not at the office. If somebody is the kind of person who will clown around and not bother with your job, they're going to be doing that regardless of whether you're at home or in an office and management need to monitor that - not penalise everyone who wants to wfh.

I think your concerns are valid, it's worth looking at what Labour are proposing and perhaps talking it through with your line manager. It's a funny time for your company to be implementing this if the government is seeking to bring in changes. Ultimately, you'll manage no matter what, because that's what all parents have to do - whether it's paying for childcare etc. But I don't see that people with young children, particularly women who statistically face far more caring demands, should have to. The solution is out there - but companies need to get to grips with it. Given that most of them are run by men, however, the shift is going to take some time.

Meanwhile, good luck - hope it works out for you.

I think the people who supervise graduates and other trainees do (at least more often than I am). Sensible employers don't have a one size fits all policy

I really can't think of many jobs that don't have a need for interacting and I believe it is better face to face. Take a presentation for company updates, product knowledge...who would prefer to sit on a Teams call then present physically? In the office people catch up during coffee breaks and discuss and feedback. It enables relationships to form which strengthens collaboration.

However I've worked in am industry that always had WFH for 20 years so fully understand the benefits (enables employees to get around balancing time) so support WFH a few days a week. It really doesn't work as well if everyone was always at home but as a manager I can see the demostrable benefits although I accept that might not be clear to everyone.

I support flexible working though as childcare hours are a challenge.

Same with my employer, 3 days a week in office.
They run reports on also.
before covid was 5 days in office but with occasional WFH.
as is not in contract to WFH, don’t think is unreasonable as took job on that basis.
they do an exceptions basis by individual. So a colleague who provides remote Tec support to APAC can work from home as is 100% remote anyway, and non standard hours

I really can't think of many jobs that don't have a need for interacting and I believe it is better face to face

you don't need it every day though. I went in last week for some face to face training and will go in later this week but the rest of the time I don't need to be in, I can easily do what I need to do at home. As I said, it's not about one size fits all, it's about looking at the person and their tasks and working out what they need. Some people need to be in every day or most days, some only need to come in once a month or even less, and all shades inbetween.

A one size fits all policy is about control and is usually a middle aged man on a high salary and stay at home wife telling women what to do, and that annoys me on principle!

I really can't think of many jobs that don't have a need for interacting and I believe it is better face to face

Problem with my role are the fact that virtually all offices in the UK are open planned with insufficient meeting rooms.

So unless it is a meeting or presentation where there is more than one/two people involved then it is better done at home using tools like Teams or Zoom. That way I don't disturb anyone else apart from the colleague I'm working with, which happens on an ad-hoc basis.

I've had the misfortune of having to sit next to Sales people on certain days thanks to hot-desking. I simply couldn't work as I couldn't concentrate.

I am in the NHS and post COVID almost all our contracts are written as hybrid. How much time in the office is flexible. Hours are too - I often start early because I'm at my best then. Our ward staff do meetings and training from home wherever possible because it reduces pressure on estates. Maintaining office space is very expensive, hybrid working is a cost saving too. I think ultimately, employers who persist in presenteeism will lose out.

Agree. I also hate when people who prefer something insist "it's better". No toxic gossip between meetings is one of my favourite things about WFH. In many ways it's also a dream for reducing bullying and harassment.

I understand that some people are lonely or bad with tech or feel the world of work is mundane when you're not in high heels. But there are places for those people. Why do they want to drive out the bliss for those of us who thrive WFH?

My daughter got a new remote job during Covid. Now all civil servants have to go into the office one day a week. She has to take her work lap top into an office hub (she has to book a hot desk a week in advance), do exactly as she would if she were at home, then go home. Less work achieved plus bus/train fares.

Yes this kind of thing is silly. Employers need to make sure time in the office is meaningful to some degree (albeit accepting that the majority of any day is working, not "water cooler" conversations)

Yes if you want to go into the office, go into the office. There will be plenty of people there (except on Fridays).

Now we may all think that she has an office job but clearly she feels she has a homeworking/child care job. The big company she works for is wanting her in the office three days a week. Maybe it's time to move on.

I agree, those ‘water cooler’ conversations never happened as often as some people like to make out!

I would say that it's more coffee breaks than water cooler conversations. It's much easier for me to wander over to someone's desk to ask for information than it is to call them up. Not impossible to do another way, but much harder.

The counterside is that I am aware that, in that scenario, I am an interruption to their day, however sometimes information is needed quickly.

As I said earlier, everyone speaking about working from home is only looking at it from the individual point of view.

Yep.

One reason for all these mandates is to get people like the OP to quit.

qz.com/return-to-work-rto-mandates-forced-quitting-1851603413

Completely agree. I work in a school, I would love to be able to say, oh but I have childcare issues, you have to support me.

Sorry but I know how the optics of this are looked at, where I used to work I was told, you cant have any school holidays off as you don't have chidren, I did, they jsut didn't know. I went to HR and sucessfully claimed discrimination. Why does someone think their employer should allow them to work from home to do their childcare. Sorry but this isunreasonable.

Why does someone think their employer should allow them to work from home to do their childcare. Sorry but this is unreasonable

What about parents of children with SEN who can't get childcare during the summer holidays? Maybe it's better for the employer if the employee gets their work done at home while they can, rather than needing to take six weeks' unpaid leave and do nothing?

Because you aren’t doing your job if you are looking after your children.
How are you putting 100% into your work?
You are employed to do a job not do half the job ‘when you are able’.
Take the unpaid leave and your company can better forecast how to operate with the employees who are actually 100% focused on the job.

It's been said repeatedly in the thread above that one is either caring for their child, or working. Not both.

As an employer, I would prefer that the parent takes leave when needing to undertake childcare duties.

Well that's for them to discuss with their employers to come to an arrangement. You cant just unilaterally decide that you're going to look after your kids while your employer thinks you're working.

Firstly - it is not just mothers who benefit from flexible working. Childless people do too.

Secondly it depends on what your contract says. I think most companies are at least going back to 3 days in the office so this is not unusual.

Lastly is having children an adequate reason to push back? If you are providing childcare can you really do your paid job at the same time?

It's the classic "But I'm special"
Like others have said, what about those eating for elderly parents, neighbours, pets etc, where does it all end?
If you have care duties during work hours, you need to outsource. If you can't, then find a job that suits your circumstances.
Just because you're a mum, doesn't mean you get special treatment.
A company should treat it's staff as equally as possible.
Funny you don't mention single dads OP,
Lots of people, including singles/childless couples have a lot on too.
Sort your private life out instead of expecting your employer to do it for you.

It's the classic "But I'm special"
Like others have said, what about those eating for elderly parents, neighbours, pets etc, where does it all end?
If you have care duties during work hours, you need to outsource. If you can't, then find a job that suits your circumstances.
Just because you're a mum, doesn't mean you get special treatment.
A company should treat it's staff as equally as possible.
Funny you don't mention single dads OP,
Lots of people, including singles/childless couples have a lot on too.
Sort your private life out instead of expecting your employer to do it for you.

Just saw this article which I thought was interesting: Power, presenteeism, and productivity in the return to office debate - IFOW