Mums forced into office by big UK company?

[MM90]

I work for a big, well-known company. The bosses are considering plans to force all colleagues to come to the office 3 days a week. They are thinking about checking our turnstile data individually and disciplining anyone who doesn’t come in for 3 days every week, whether they need to be there or not. I thought this was the 21st century where working women have the chance to create a sensible work / life balance so long as they perform in their job. My line manager gave me a great performance rating during Covid. I have two children under 5 and no family nearby. Any thoughts on this?

This thread really illustrates how the workplace is set up for men, and how many women go along with it because of their conditioning.

Then I take it this is not work done on the computer. Or work that requires a lot of concentration all the time, because that is where productivity falls off a cliff after a couple of hours.

It's not about it being setup for men or women, its about being professional, having a professional attitudes that means focusing on the job, not trying to multi-task half heartedly working while doing child care.

No man would consider it, why are women jeopardising their own careers by trying to multi-task?

Donkeys years ago I read an article in Cosmo or somewhere - Things women do to jeopardise their own careers - Two that stick in my head

Introduce themselves by first name only, its infantising - men use both names

Groom themselves in public, apply lippy, brush / redo hair - no man would pull a comb out in an office.

Others you could easily add -

Disappear mid afternoon on the school run
Have kids interrupt
Never be seen in the flesh.

But the really sad thing is the stereotype you leave behind. The current generation of mums are benefiting from the stereotypical mums of the last 40 years who used childcare.
If the 20s & 30s mums don't use childcare and do the job half-heartedly what does that do for your daughters and their chances of getting equal opportunities to your sons?

What are you talking about?? I WFH and still use childcare, as do most other parents. WFH doesn’t mean working half heartedly with kids running around. Read the thread ffs and I’ll say it again clearly for you…people who WFH also USE childcare. I’m not going into it again, but read the posts and you might understand why it’s beneficial.

@Plomant if it's not about Mum trying to multi-task them what difference does it make if they are WFH or in the Office?

Why is the thread title Mums forced in to office and not Staff forced into office - whats so special about Mums?

It's clear from MN there are loads of Mums trying to skimp on childcare. I've also come across a Dad trying to skimp on childcare - who ended up with the sack.

In the original post nothing was mentioned about the two children being in any sort of childcare. All it said was no family near to help.

There are no kids, It’s clearly a journalist. The thread title is written like a Daily Mail headline. Your comments will no doubt appear in an article somewhere soon. .

As I said, read the thread and you’ll find out!
But quick summary of my situation - school drop off 8.50am, nursery pick up 5.30pm, after school club pick up 6. No breakfast club or other option for before school childcare. Wfh means I can do school/ nursery run at 8.50 and be at my desk by 9. Finish at 5.15 and be at nursery in time. If I had to go to the office (hour commute) I wouldn’t be able to do my hours. Wfh has meant I can work in a role I love, that contributes something. Loads are in my situation, not just due to child care hours but other caring responsibilities or disabilities or just wanting a better work life balance! And people like you spouting rubbish, yet with zero understanding, are incredibly frustrating.
Oh and the thread is probably titled ‘mums’ because op is a journalist trying to maximize responses.

I hope mine do!! People clearly have zero understanding of why wfh is beneficial and it would be great if the daily mail could do an actual positive piece on its benefits, backed up with proper research. But sadly it’s the daily mail so will likely be the opposite

People clearly have zero understanding of why wfh is beneficial and it would be great if the daily mail could do an actual positive piece on its benefits, backed up with proper research

I think people do though, but I don’t know that the research you speak of will cover all angles.

Personally, I’m far more productive when I wfh and have better work life balance as opposed to when I attend the office. However, I know that’s not the case for some people I manage or some others I work with and forget about their availability from 2.30 onwards or school holidays when they use wfh to save on vacation care/club fees. Even those with older kids - couldn’t make the ad hoc urgent meeting, as needed to ‘just duck out to drop the kids at laser tag/movies/friends place/bowling’ etc, or take working hours in school hols to cover all appointments for the family, seemingly each kid going to the dentist or Dr on a different day. It was absolutely fine during Covid and everyone was understanding when schools would not take kids in person and clubs/vacation care shut down leaving parents no choice, people understood limits on availability because parents were FORCED to act as home educators and entertainers and babysitters for kids but many parents have carried this over and now act in exactly the same way to save money on nursery/before &after school and vacation care.

I also had kids entering professions before and after wfh came in for many and also have younger professionals in my area and having people wfh is not great for their development, it’s not impossible but it’s a lot harder for them. Does the research cover this aspect and these cohorts as well as those experienced cohorts for which this is not a factor?

Dont get me wrong, I love wfh but it’s just not a utopia many make out all round. I especially appreciate it now I’m in my ‘retirement job’ as I spent decades in a face to face role, long hours on your feet, no breaks and would need to actually retire earlier than if swapping to a desk role, and throw in the wfh aspect and it’s possible to push retirement out even further again so that’s a win for both individuals and society. So positives, and negatives but in total I don’t think overwhelmingly one way is better than the other for everyone and all situations so not sure how any research covers that?

Agree with all of this. Working from home benefits me personally to an enormous amount (fits with my children and my disability) and meant I could widen the geographical area when looking for a career move.

But being an adult about it I can also see huge benefits to other people, and employers, in having people in the office on a regular basis too.

Hybrid seems like a very good compromise and I am astonished people are complaining about it

The point I’m making is WFH isn’t about working with kids at home, like many posters are assuming. Flexible working as a whole has brought many people into the workplace who wouldn’t normally be able to work. I think it’s very important. Hybrid working makes sense and I think is a good option where possible, but posters just responding with a blanket ‘well what's the issue you should have child care’ are missing the bigger picture.

The point I’m making is WFH isn’t about working with kids at home, like many posters are assuming

But yet it is for many people, which is why you have been getting the responses you have. It’s no point saying there is no wfh with kids at home because there is for so many, people are telling you that. It’s a huge problem.

The OP said she had 2 under 5 and no family nearby so this OP was all about childcare, she also said mums so again about children. Obviously people have replied to these points as they are the main part of the OP

It's not about it being setup for men or women, its about being professional, having a professional attitudes that means focusing on the job, not trying to multi-task half heartedly working while doing child care

No, it isn't. It's about the fact that if you have an office job, the chances are that you can work flexibly, get the work done at times outside the 9-5 and don't need spend time and money commuting and destroying the environment.

Go and read Invisible Women.

And give I have worked from home for at least some of the time since the mid 2000s, I can assure you that it's more than possible to "be professional" without sitting at a desk in an office for 8 hours plus.

The OP said she had 2 under 5 and no family nearby so this OP was all about childcare, she also said mums so again about children. Obviously people have replied to these points as they are the main part of the OP

Not "obviously". People have assumed it's about working alongside having kids, rather than the wraparound and pick-up - which you can't ask someone else to do if you don't have family nearby.

MNers are obsessed with people working when they've got small kids around. Occasionally you might have to for an out of hours meeting or because a child is ill and you need to get something done. But otherwise it isn't the case and the fact that a few people have suggested doing it on MN doesn't mean that it's a widespread problem.

No it’s not, people are making massive assumptions. OP could easily be in the same situation as me and 1000’s of others where wrap around care does not match up with office hours.

No it’s not, people are making massive assumptions. OP could easily be in the same situation as me and 1000’s of others where wrap around care does not match up with office hours.

This is the case for many parents (including dads) but we can't deny that there are loads of parents (mainly mums) who are WFH and caring for children,

As much as people like to pretend it doesn't happen, it does. It 100% does in my workplace and it's obvious those who are not 100% working and doing other things.

Maybe OP should come back and clarify then as it reads like no childcare and she only cares about mums, OP hasn't been back on this thread at all.

@BobnLen maybe her children ate her because she forgot to give them lunch as she was trying to WFH while simultaneously taking care of toddlers......

@Plomant No it’s not, people are making massive assumptions. OP could easily be in the same situation as me and 1000’s of others where wrap around care does not match up with office hours

Hang on, are you saying that the crux is people don’t have childcare for all of working hours and therefore need to look after children during some of those hours? If so, I think you are saying what many on this thread are saying? That people are looking after kids while meant to be working?

If I have this wrong, from what you are saying, how so?

No. Try reading my posts again. Quick summary - school drop off 8.50am. I can be at my desk by 9 when wfh. Nursery drop off 5.30. I can leave my desk at 5.15 when wfh. If commute involved I would be late for work/ wouldn’t make pick up.

It’s similar here, I work 4 days, 2 WFH and 2 office.
I can only do the office days because DH WFH permanently (pre Covid). My hours are 8.45-4.45, commute at least an hour, need to allow 1hr 15. Nursery/School is 7.45-5.30. On office days DH does drop off and pick up, I do my WFH days. If I had to go back to office full time DH could cover it but most people don’t have that. We have no family help but we do have childcare/school during our working hours, we aren’t working and looking after kids simultaneously.

Definitely makes it sound like a journalist, or troll with a click bait heading.

@Plomant No. Try reading my posts again. Quick summary - school drop off 8.50am. I can be at my desk by 9 when wfh. Nursery drop off 5.30. I can leave my desk at 5.15 when wfh. If commute involved I would be late for work/ wouldn’t make pick up

That’s great, but you are basing all wfh on this set-up. What a lot of people are saying is that not everyone has this set up. Not everyone is 10mins away from school and can start when they are meant to, and not everyone uses after school care and nursery so they are available to work in the afternoons. There are people like yourself who it can work for and who do the right thing, but there are others who are not close to school and refuse to use before school care, after school care, vacation care and in some cases nursery, and who are not doing the right thing by employers and coworkers.