Mums forced into office by big UK company?

[MM90]

I work for a big, well-known company. The bosses are considering plans to force all colleagues to come to the office 3 days a week. They are thinking about checking our turnstile data individually and disciplining anyone who doesn’t come in for 3 days every week, whether they need to be there or not. I thought this was the 21st century where working women have the chance to create a sensible work / life balance so long as they perform in their job. My line manager gave me a great performance rating during Covid. I have two children under 5 and no family nearby. Any thoughts on this?

True BUT what you count as « extra expense » is in fact not extra, the fact that office workers started WFH fully during Covid allowed us to save on those expenses. It is unfair now to claim that the « extra » costs are not fair.
FWIW I am a working mum, I enjoyed saving on childcare/commute/clothes during Covid and am of course annoyed at the cost now. But I wouldn’t dream to claim that I shouldn’t have to come to the office because it means I have to pay for afterschool care and a Tube pass.

Totally agree - My friends Husband - yes a man - just turned down a job. It would have been a promotion for him, nearly 30k salary increase plus bonus. But there was no flexi time and no remote working. Role was an hours drive away and was the role that most days you wouldn't finish on time. He is a coach for under 7 and under 10's team and by taking this job would have had to stop doing that aswel as not being home some days to pick up his children from school the days he has agreed with his. Currently goes into the office 2 days a week and this is alternated with his wife two days a week in the office. WFH has not just benefited women - its benefitted everyone, people have time back and that is so valuable. I deal with people across the whole world, i dont hear kids in the background etc with other people who are WFH. i do hear and it bugs the crap out of me the noise from the office from the people that are in the office, or when i am in the office i have to listen to everyone on their headsets fighting over the noise to speak. Productivity improved immensely in our place with WFH, my boss has seen how little i get done when i have to go into the office, you get nothing done. Op if you are being forced back look for another job there are plenty out there fully remote

I feel like is is inevitable, and before long we will all be expected to be in the office more often than not. While I was initially pro work from home and do so myself I do get fed up of hearing colleagues talk about how they are kicking the arse out of it walking the dog twice a day while they are supposed to be working, doing their housework, preparing food, working out, childcare, popping to the shops and so on.

Sure have a good work life balance but you need to be actually working when you are supposed to be not getting all the boring household stuff done on your works time and leaving more diligent co-workers to pick up your slack. If you need more time to do personal stuff then reduce your hours, you aren't getting paid to hang up your washing or watch loose women.

Its people like that (and there are a lot of them) who have ruined home working for everyone at least in the office it isn't as easy for some to take the piss and make mugs out of everyone else.

There aren't many women having children without partners initially. I think it's under 10% of dads not on the BC, and most of them will still be in a relationship with the mother at the time. But that's the wrong stat. Kids are childcare aged for a decade or so thereafter.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be so easy for fathers to do so little after they've split with the mother. Which statistically, is what happens a lot of the time. No argument there. However, that still leaves those women in a bind now.

You say 'WFH'

You mean 'look after my DC'

Most.office jobs are now back in the office. Unless you were hired on a WFH basis, you have no grounds here

A lot of big offices with multiple floors have turnstiles at the main entrance. You use your badge (like at a railway turnstile) to clock in and get through main reception.

In both places I’ve worked at that were like that the ground floor was a large public atrium with reception desks (in front of the turnstiles) and lifts and multiple escalators (behind the turnstiles).

One was a National Rail Network office and one was an insurance company.

The other day there was a poster on here that said she earnt 70k a year and pretty much did fuck all and WFH full time. She said she had a daily nap, did housework, watched Netflix. Loads of posters agreed their working lives were similar. My DH earns well and is currently ‘in a meeting’ whilst he works from home. But he actually isn’t. He’s been playing golf since 1pm in the sunshine.

It was all bound to come to an end sooner or later.

And why do you think that is?

I think you should go to the office three days a week and be really grateful for two a week where you can work from home.

None of this addresses the point that these beliefs you hold have not yet led us to an equal society.

We know what happens when access to childcare is reduced. We saw during lockdown which sex was more likely to change working arrangements and take the brunt of homeschooling etc. This means that reduced access to flexibility, particularly with the childcare sector in a mess, is bad for working women. One doesn't have to like this to understand that it's real.

Just had a discussion about someone wanting to return from mat leave who’s made a FWR to work permanently from home indefinitely so they can continue breastfeeding their 14 month old child. There is a 40% in office requirement plus ample breastfeeding/expressing provision in the office.

It’s going to have to be explained to them that they can’t have the toddler at home during the 60% they are at home, never mind not getting 100% working from home indefinitely which I suspect is going to result in a meltdown.

When I was working*, I discovered that concessions were made for working mums, but not for those of us with caring responsibilities. A bit annoying, but...

*Theoretically, I'm still employed on a supply basis, but I no longer have a contract.

Again. WFH doesn’t mean looking after dc whilst working. I know lots of people with young children WFH, the young children are all in nursery/ school/ after school club. I don’t know a single person who WFH with their children at home. Your attitude is so damaging.

And why do you think that is?*

You read it all the time here about women who have just moved in with their partner or who are pregnant who do it all, all the cooking, cleaning etc. Then they're on maternity leave and do it all and it doesn't end. This is the issue. At the start of a relationship when you move in there should be firm ground rules.

I have no idea why so many women are happy to become mum number 2 to these men, but they do. Any men who expect a women to do all the housework, cooking and childcare shouldn't even get to the serious relationship stage- women need much higher bars.

The sooner mums who are in partnership with men who do not take on their fair share of childcare responsibilities stop assuming everyone is in the same boat , the better

Well, he would climb the career ladder more quickly, he's a man. Men have always been treated more favourably in the workplace, and they still are. https://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/content/news/men-given-more-workplace-flexibility-than-women/

The idea that men are 'as likely' to be doing the school run as women is given the lie by going to literally any primary school anywhere at pickup/dropoff time.

You can either look after your children or work from home, you can't do both.

So misogyny is the fault of women, and their problem to solve. Good to know.

You might not do, but there are plenty of people I work with whose late afternoons are interrupted when their kids get home from school. If a child isn’t old enough to get their own snack they should be in a club whilst their parents are working from home.

Other than for emergencies/ times of illness I haven’t see anyone trying to wfh whilst regularly wfh with a toddler.

@AnonymousBleep how else does it get fixed though? It's acceptable in society for men to be shit and just do work. We need to make it unacceptable. Those men who don't do housework or childcare won't change as they get an easy ride. If those men aren't given the opportunity to do it then it will change.

That's a weirdly passive response that makes it sound like you're just waiting for someone else to sort it?

Yes, it's a societal problem and men need to change their behaviour. But we don't have to just sit around and wait for them to do it - we also have agency.

I'm all in favour of flexible working for both men and women. I just don't think we'll ever get to anything like equality if we assume and accept that women are always going to be the default carers.

That doesn't mean we should be passive at an individual level though. If we can negotiate equality with our partners then we should. DH did half the childcare /home ed in lockdown too and he's my kids step dad. And he still managed his very senior job (while ensuring all his team has the same flexibility).

Yes we need societal structures that support us but it is and always will be the case that equality needs to be fought for on the "home front" too.

All of those jobs could have some degree of flexible working - and some of them lots of people who do them do them specifically because of the flexibility. There are other kinds of flexibility besides working from home.

Ugh! Was this a journo fishing around for content!???

So long as you don't have a WFH contract, I don't think it's unreasonable for the company to decide to run themselves like that. I also think it's perfectly reasonable for you to apply for a WFH job elsewhere. I run a WFH organisation, we don't have an office and I never plan to have one. I do think it's a bit less efficient, but we save rent and keep our staff, and in our industry, that is a huge help. We had two jobs recently that had 100+ applicants, we went big on the WFH culture. I think it will take a while for the workforce to settle down.