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Original poster

Feel like I'm being unfairly treated at work is there any employment legals here or HR people who can help?

83 replies

Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 00:32

I'll try and keep this short.
I am a single unsupported mum to 2 disabled children aged 12 and 5. Primary and secondary both with their own different issues.
I work 2 days per week Monday and Friday.
I had to take time off for dependant (daughter) as she was sick Friday 8th March and Monday 11th March. Today I went to work and got sprung into a "fact finding" meeting I didn't know about (I think this is OK?) During fact finding I was told/asked the following:-
1 - my leave on the Monday 11th March would not be classed as time off for dependant but classed as parental leave as I could have forseen it coming (?)
2 - who looks after your children so you can socialise and have nights out?
3 - looked after your children when you went on your trip to Amsterdam? (1 night trip taken during non working days)

Is statement 1 correct?
Can they even ask me question 2 and 3?

They also asked me to provide evidence my children were off school during time off for dependant times in the form of documents from school - are they allowed to do this?

Feel like I am being bullied and treated massively unfairly. Since July 2023 to now I have taken 3 days off personally unwell 2 days with a UTI where I attended out of hours hospital because it was that bad - evidence given and once when I had a emotional breakdown at work due to a relationship break down.

Thank you.
Sorry if my typing is awful can't sleep for working.

OP posts:
HappiestSleeping · 16/03/2024 00:53

This is a difficult situation for you. Unfortunately, your employer is not under any legal obligation to cut any slack for your personal circumstances, although a decent employer would.

As to the classification of dependent leave, I'm not sure why they would think that illness is foreseeable. I presume you took annual leave for those days, so are they unhappy about the lack of notice?

SevenSeasOfRhye · 16/03/2024 00:56

It does sound excessive if this is your first instance of needing dependants' leave. You should be allowed reasonable time off in those circumstances - two days is reasonable.

Parental leave - if your DC are disabled, you can take this as individual days, rather than the standard blocks for non-disabled DC - something to be aware of.

I suppose with the other questions they were exploring alternatives to you needing the time off, but it's all rather draconian in the circumstances.

daisychain01 · 16/03/2024 05:32

2 - who looks after your children so you can socialise and have nights out?
3 - looked after your children when you went on your trip to Amsterdam? (1 night trip taken during non working days)

these aren't appropriate questions - they have no right to know what you do in your private life as regards child care arrangements, even regarding the trip to Amsterdam (presumably a work trip?) not least of all if it was one of your non-working days.

my leave on the Monday 11th March would not be classed as time off for dependant but classed as parental leave as I could have forseen it coming (?)

On this question the nub of the issue is whether your absence will be paid or unpaid. They are technically correct that the Monday absence was a known issue so they can legally apply parental leave and decide not to pay you for that day. They could also do the same for the Friday absence, as a dependent leave day, and they get to decide whether to pay you or not.

daisychain01 · 16/03/2024 05:37

As to the classification of dependent leave, I'm not sure why they would think that illness is foreseeable.

my interpretation from the OP is that the Monday absence was potentially foreseeable because the OPs child was sick on Friday (which wasn't strictly "foreseeable") and by the time it got to Monday it wasnt completely out of the blue that they were still ill on the Monday.

there was also a potential sensitivity around the fact that Fri and Mon are the OPs only working days,

FedUpMumof10YO · 16/03/2024 05:58

Do you repeatedly have to take leave for the children ? I presume you are unable to wfh?

Do you use social media that work can see for nights out ? (Just trying to work out if there's any background info to them asking this).

Are you able to switch your days if stuff like this happens regularly? So you weren't able to work the Fri / Mon but you can work Tues / Wed instead?

I don't agree with 2&3 but IF there is lot of instances whereby you need to take unplanned leave, they might be at the point where they need to dig a little deeper.

Ohiwish12 · 16/03/2024 06:57

Point one sounds correct.
https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

It sounds like you should have taken Friday off as dependent leave (paid) and made arrangements of care which could include requesting parental leave (unpaid) for Monday.

Time off for family and dependants

Your legal right to time off to care for dependants - when you can take time off, how long you get, your rights

https://www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

HappiestSleeping · 16/03/2024 08:07

FedUpMumof10YO · 16/03/2024 05:58

Do you repeatedly have to take leave for the children ? I presume you are unable to wfh?

Do you use social media that work can see for nights out ? (Just trying to work out if there's any background info to them asking this).

Are you able to switch your days if stuff like this happens regularly? So you weren't able to work the Fri / Mon but you can work Tues / Wed instead?

I don't agree with 2&3 but IF there is lot of instances whereby you need to take unplanned leave, they might be at the point where they need to dig a little deeper.

Working from home wouldn't help. If the OP needed to take the day off to care for her child, then it wouldn't be possible to be working from home.

Overthinking22 · 16/03/2024 08:47

If I'm reading this correctly you've had 8 days off in 9 months, that's probably quite a high percentage and more visible as you're part time, a month off technically.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to be a single mum with disabled children so I'm only looking at this from their view.

They should have had a wee informal chat beforehand, don't sound very supportive and Q2 and Q3 are none of their goddamn business. Do have an HR dept?

TiptoeTess · 16/03/2024 08:55

If you only work two days a week then that does sound like quite a lot of leave that happens to have occurred on your days, which just so happen to give you long weekends.

WandaWonder · 16/03/2024 08:56

HappiestSleeping · 16/03/2024 08:07

Working from home wouldn't help. If the OP needed to take the day off to care for her child, then it wouldn't be possible to be working from home.

Show quote history

Exactly!

There in being unfairly treated as you are genuinely having issues and unfairly treated because you don't get what you want

Your personal situation is not your employers fault

Trisolaris · 16/03/2024 08:56

They are allowed to investigate, however, if they are treating you less favourably than other colleagues (ie asking you for proof of child’s absence from school and not anyone else or harassing you), you should know that your circumstances are covered by the equality act 2010 (discrimination by association). This means if they treat you less favourably due to your child’s disability you might like to remind them that this is discrimination.

Newyearoldhair · 16/03/2024 09:03

@Onehouratatime that is awful. Points 2 and 3 I believe that they cannot ask you.
Are you part of a union?
I had similar- couldn't walk easily up and down stairs due to arthritis so was in a ground floor office, dickhead line manager pulled me in to a disciplinary meeting as I had been seen swimming in the local leisure centre. I contacted the occupational health provider that our company used and they basically bollocked HR and my LM.

Dippydinosaurus · 16/03/2024 09:13

3 - looked after your children when you went on your trip to Amsterdam? (1 night trip taken during non working days)

Was this during the weekend your child was ill and you posted the pictures on social media? Or are they trying to establish that you could have found alternative childcare for the Monday

Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:16

@HappiestSleeping thank you... I took unpaid time off for dependant 8th march and then the same for 11th March. Unfortunately I only get a small amount of annual leave due to only working Monday and Friday (paid bank Holidays using annual leave)

@daisychain01 the trip to Amsterdam was a trip for my sisters birthday taken on a Wednesday to Thursday non working days, worked my normal Monday and Friday day that same week. My mum had my kids overnight and they were in school during the day so my mum went to work (she works full-time shifts) and I am unpaid for any type of leave from the company which isn't annual leave (dependant parental etc etc)

@Dippydinosaurus no it was in January. I worked my Monday went to Amsterdam wed and thur and worked my Friday - however had to leave work at 1.20pm on the Friday instead on 3.45pm finish due to my son getting suspended from school and having to collect him immediately (school rules)

Thanks for everyone's responses. I do feel I am being discriminated by association.

Work have said I will get my meeting minutes shortly and work will decide if a formal disciplinary will be taken against me.

Everytime I have taken time off for dependants 1 of if not both of my dependants have been sick/emergency at school/ something that warrants the leave so in that respect and all respects I haven't done anything under cuff or lied.

My family are very unsupportive with the children I literally do not have any help at all with the kids it's me vs the world dcs don't see dad's.

What do i do now? Wait and see what they do and then raise a grievance for the line of questioning?

OP posts:
Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:20

I also can't work from home due to the time of job I do. Clinical involving surgery

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 16/03/2024 10:21

HappiestSleeping · 16/03/2024 08:07

Working from home wouldn't help. If the OP needed to take the day off to care for her child, then it wouldn't be possible to be working from home.

Show quote history

Depends on the circumstances. I can work fine from home with mine now, he’s 13 and autistic so can’t be left home alone but doesn’t need direct supervision all the time like a younger child.

Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:21

@Overthinking22 I admit my absence is high at the moment for the children but my personal absence is low. Probably the lowest in the company. Thank you for your reply. No HR department just my manager the general manager and the bosses

OP posts:
Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:25

@Ohiwish12 I would of made arrangements for care on the Monday 11th however I can't as I don't have anyone to care for my children. I was also unsure if DD would be off sick on the Monday as I thought after the weekend rest she might have been OK for the Monday... temperature and coughing Friday up and down all weekend with temperature spikes randomly.

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 16/03/2024 10:29

Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:16

@HappiestSleeping thank you... I took unpaid time off for dependant 8th march and then the same for 11th March. Unfortunately I only get a small amount of annual leave due to only working Monday and Friday (paid bank Holidays using annual leave)

@daisychain01 the trip to Amsterdam was a trip for my sisters birthday taken on a Wednesday to Thursday non working days, worked my normal Monday and Friday day that same week. My mum had my kids overnight and they were in school during the day so my mum went to work (she works full-time shifts) and I am unpaid for any type of leave from the company which isn't annual leave (dependant parental etc etc)

@Dippydinosaurus no it was in January. I worked my Monday went to Amsterdam wed and thur and worked my Friday - however had to leave work at 1.20pm on the Friday instead on 3.45pm finish due to my son getting suspended from school and having to collect him immediately (school rules)

Thanks for everyone's responses. I do feel I am being discriminated by association.

Work have said I will get my meeting minutes shortly and work will decide if a formal disciplinary will be taken against me.

Everytime I have taken time off for dependants 1 of if not both of my dependants have been sick/emergency at school/ something that warrants the leave so in that respect and all respects I haven't done anything under cuff or lied.

My family are very unsupportive with the children I literally do not have any help at all with the kids it's me vs the world dcs don't see dad's.

What do i do now? Wait and see what they do and then raise a grievance for the line of questioning?

School can’t insist you collect immediately even for a fixed term exclusion there has to be notice. This was probably one of the single best pieces of advice I got from sendias when we were having school issues with my autistic child and I was being called to come out of work, took so much pressure off. However they did warn what might happen is that school might do if you couldn’t collect immediately was turn it into a longer exclusion , so a two day instead of one for example. In practise once I started refusing to collect immediately I think it improved things as I wasn’t solving schools immediate problem so they had to look at alternative support being in place. It’s tough and I do have sympathy for teachers as Sen support is so woeful but if you keep on collecting and solving the immediate problem you’ll be doing it for years as there is no incentive for anyone to find another solution

Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:32

@FedUpMumof10YO thanks for your post. I have minimal nights out. I have no/little support or childcare for my kids and I can't have nights out regularly last night out was December 2nd when my dad had my dd and my ds went to a friends house. No days off before or after my night out. I am also treated for anxiety and depression under the doctor who advises I have more nights out and time away from the kids (but I cant)

They have offered to reduce my hours which isn't an option for me or switch my working Friday to a Thursday however this wouldn't be do able as it wouldn't work with my existing responsibilities/arrangements (dd doing a course and ds would loose his mind he is Autistic and likes routine he's also just got ehcp for specialist school so that will up root him enough)

I have put things in place to try and minimise my time off - ehcp and seeking specialist provision so ds would not get suspended regularly and consultant peads appointments for dd for sleep medication to aide her sleep to improve her immune system there for more sleep = more well child

OP posts:
Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:34

@Morph22010 my son has SEMH needs so was threatening to harm himself and others and needed my care urgently on that occasion. He is also high risk for missing so if I didn't get him straight away I would of be asked why. I'm in a tricky situation

OP posts:
ASighMadeOfStone · 16/03/2024 10:37

As above. Points 2 and 3 are very invasive and unprofessional but you can see where they are going with their thinking. You have told them you have no childcare, yet have been on holiday without your children. Their view is going to be how come you manage childcare for holidays but not for a sick child.

Someone who only works 2 days a week has a high proportion of those two days off. A company which needs someone at work for those two days isn't really going to care about the reason why you aren't there. Just that you aren't.

It's fairly clear they think you're taking the piss unfortunately so make sure you have all the facts about your rights to hand.

You probably, in the nicest possible way, need to have a plan B in place for if your children are sick. If that can't be a relative, then someone you pay. What happens to them after school?

Morph22010 · 16/03/2024 10:44

Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:34

@Morph22010 my son has SEMH needs so was threatening to harm himself and others and needed my care urgently on that occasion. He is also high risk for missing so if I didn't get him straight away I would of be asked why. I'm in a tricky situation

it is tricky and difficult to say no but I’ve seen so many cases where a child has been managed by asking parents to collect. Nothing gets put in place support wise, child ends up at secondary with no support and inevitably out of school completely. From your later posts it sounds like you have ehcp and specialist lined up so things are moving forward, assuming these are for the same child, so hopefully it’s a short term things you can get though and then he’ll be settled in specialist. We had similar with many exclusions and my son is has now been in specialist for several years without one exclusion or one request to collect, except for I think one time he was ill. It’s why so many parents of Sen children can’t work

Morph22010 · 16/03/2024 10:48

ASighMadeOfStone · 16/03/2024 10:37

As above. Points 2 and 3 are very invasive and unprofessional but you can see where they are going with their thinking. You have told them you have no childcare, yet have been on holiday without your children. Their view is going to be how come you manage childcare for holidays but not for a sick child.

Someone who only works 2 days a week has a high proportion of those two days off. A company which needs someone at work for those two days isn't really going to care about the reason why you aren't there. Just that you aren't.

It's fairly clear they think you're taking the piss unfortunately so make sure you have all the facts about your rights to hand.

You probably, in the nicest possible way, need to have a plan B in place for if your children are sick. If that can't be a relative, then someone you pay. What happens to them after school?

The trouble is it’s no not so easy to get childcare for an Sen child. My child is autistic and luckily my mum is retired so can help out but if not there would be nothing. I have never found a suitable holiday club where I am able to leave him. Unfortunately for many parents of Sen children there is no plan b option, that’s why so many end up having to give up work completely

Original poster
Onehouratatime · 16/03/2024 10:48

@ASighMadeOfStone I can't afford a plan B unfortunately and even if I could having someone paid and on standby is near enough impossible. After school my ds walks home and is at home. Dd is at before and after school club on my working days.

I can see there problem work are facing and I have tried to improve my personal situation by ehcp for son for the correct school and sleep meds for daughter to help her however I just feel attacked. I've given them the evidence that the relevant child was off sick and all my evidence matches up with my leave days all unpaid.

The only thing is I am good at my job. I do my Job well. Manager also stated this in the meeting. And they can't get staff easily so if they were to loose me they would be understaffed permanently

OP posts:
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