Feel like I'm being unfairly treated at work is there any employment legals here or HR people who can help?

[Onehouratatime]

I'll try and keep this short.
I am a single unsupported mum to 2 disabled children aged 12 and 5. Primary and secondary both with their own different issues.
I work 2 days per week Monday and Friday.
I had to take time off for dependant (daughter) as she was sick Friday 8th March and Monday 11th March. Today I went to work and got sprung into a "fact finding" meeting I didn't know about (I think this is OK?) During fact finding I was told/asked the following:-
1 - my leave on the Monday 11th March would not be classed as time off for dependant but classed as parental leave as I could have forseen it coming (?)
2 - who looks after your children so you can socialise and have nights out?
3 - looked after your children when you went on your trip to Amsterdam? (1 night trip taken during non working days)

Is statement 1 correct?
Can they even ask me question 2 and 3?

They also asked me to provide evidence my children were off school during time off for dependant times in the form of documents from school - are they allowed to do this?

Feel like I am being bullied and treated massively unfairly. Since July 2023 to now I have taken 3 days off personally unwell 2 days with a UTI where I attended out of hours hospital because it was that bad - evidence given and once when I had a emotional breakdown at work due to a relationship break down.

Thank you.
Sorry if my typing is awful can't sleep for working.

@Morph22010 this exactly. I'm lucky DS is the age he is and can stay home while I work during half terms etc otherwise I wouldn't be able to work at all. He was diagnosed late.

If you work 2 days of 5 I would expect that you would be allocated 2/5 of the full time annual leave allocation, so if a full time person received 25 days, you would receive 10 days. Does this sound about right for your allocation?

It must be very difficult for you. I would suggest that you make copious notes at any meeting, and then follow the meeting up with an email to all attendees confirming any points made. This could well prove to be your sword and your shield for any future action. If nothing else, it will ensure that they stick to the letter of the law.

Hopefully you can find a path through that enables you to keep working.

Of course there will be circumstances where a child offers no greater distraction from work than a colleague coming over to talk at a desk, but a sick, young child is unlikely to be that undemanding. Not always the case but in general.

The other upside of working at home is that it is possible, depending on the job, to just work a bit longer to compensate for interruptions.

In my experience, post covid, not many people do. Pre covid, I was a huge advocate of flexible working (I.e. working either at home or in the office). Unfortunately covid has spoilt that and productivity has dropped massively when people work from home. At least in my experience, and I appreciate I am a sample of 1. Many of my network think the same though.

I totally agree with you, it’s a case as with most things in life that the people who take the piss just end up spoiling it for everyone. I’ve been at my work years and have built up trust, they know I go above and beyond so my boss is pretty flexible when I need to wfh a day, like I said my son doesn’t need looking after anymore it’s just a case of someone being home for “just in case”. When he was 9 in Covid it was a bloody nightmare trying to work from home properly with him but there was no choice, i can’t imagine how people try and kid themselves they can still work properly while looking after a baby or toddler.

If you get DLA/PIP for your children you can take parental leave in blocks of days for your children.

https://www.acas.org.uk/parental-leave

2 and 3 are not their business.

Contact ACAS for advice and your union if you are in one.

I was going to suggest claiming dla as well if you are not already doing so. Then if the worse comes to the worse you can also claim universal credit with the disabled child elements and you don’t have a requirement to find work. I know work isn’t just about the money but having the backup of the extra money available does take the pressure off.

I would speak to ACS I think that's how you spell it although I think a letter is missing

ACAS:

https://www.acas.org.uk

@HappiestSleeping yes that sounds about right minus bank Holidays and Christmas etc leaves me around 4 annual leave days per year.

@Morph22010 yes get this already!

1 is fine, though "parental leave" is a whole different thing so I'd ask them to clarify how they are treating it. It is to be taken unpaid and in week long blocks.

2 & 3 what's it to them??

Ah didn't realise this. Glad that is the case

I can see why they've offered you alternatives it's so if they have to fire you they can say they offered them.

I would also caution against telling them the doctor said you should have more nights out, phrase it as breaks from the stresses of the children.

@benjoin I didn't tell them this i didn't even mention my own mental health it was more focused on dependant leave as my personal leave is very low and was backed with evidence when I was off sick but definitely won't tell them that haha

If the offers were do able I would go for them but unfortunately they would cause more detriment to myself and the situation to change my working days and reduce my hours.

Yes they don't care about that though. They just want to be able to show they've offered alternatives. That you can't do them doesn't matter to them.

I wish you the best as this all sounds very tricky.

What do I do now guys? Wait and see what they do next?

I have said in the meeting I will provide details about my children's disabilities. I've given the evidence about school absences. I have explained I have put things in place to improve the parental/ time off for dependant instances. What should I do now 🤔 😕 😔

Have a look at Sam stone - he deals with formal grievances processes and website (as shocking as it is) has some really solid advice on it. www.formalgrievance.com

My friend used one of the templates hes created online when she was facing pregnancy discrimination. HR shit themselves.

Re 2/3 makes me think someone's seen photos on social media and gone from when the photos were posted and went running to your manager or maybe in whatup group ? who at your work is on your social media

Fairly easy to prove the dates of your flights etc

You've only been there a few months and have had lots of last minute absence - yes you will need to wait and see the outcome of the meeting

Mondays and Fridays are the worst days to work when you are part time as most of your leave is decided for you due to bank holidays, so you have very little flexibility

There isn't any discrimination though - childcare issues are not the employers problem

There’s no discrimination here in a legal sense.

1 is correct.

2 & 3 while not the most appropriate way to ask is essentially them being perhaps a bit confused because you are presumably making the argument that all of this time off for childcare issues is due to having no help, and yet they know/can see you going on nights out or holidays without your kids.

I’d keep my own records of things for now, just keep an eye on it, but ultimately if you’re not able to do your job reliably due to this then they could let you go. Time off for dependents is a tricky one because the law doesn’t say how much time you can take or how often, it just says it should be “reasonable” and that your employer should be as flexible as they can be etc. If they have already offered to reduce your hours and you have declined that then they’re probably close to where if they wanted to then they could say they’ve been as flexible as they can be and that you are unable to do the job

@Onehouratatime discrimination by association can be tricky if their contention is regarding your absence, for the future, shore up your defences with all the evidence you can, keep meticulous records if you have concerns that's what they might have on their mind.

You seem to have covered your situation thoroughly in how you've given them information about your family circumstances. So, yes to your question, wait and see what they do next.

They would be foolish to take any extreme action such as dismissal, as it sounds like they value and need your contributions on the days you are working. Sounds like they just want to ensure that your absences are not going to become a pattern/trend especially if they are heavily reliant on you as an employee and you only have 2 days a week working,

If you're in any social media platforms, please desist from posting photos on there that they could misinterpret, if you believe there are ongoing risks of absence. To emphasise, it is extremely poor practice for an employer to snoop on an employee's private life through their SM feeds, but they do - as I always say on here, don't add fuel to the fire, it creates complexity you don't need. Locking down security is a good thing to do, but many people have work colleagues in their Facebook for example, and people talk...

Is this relevant though? Your employer doesn't really care why you are absent from work. Whether it's because you're ill, or because of an issue with a child. You are not at work and have had several incidences of absence, and other occasions when you have to leave work early.

They are obviously fed up with this and if you are dealing with patients then there are wider impacts than just not being in the office to take phone calls or go to meetings.

Could you offer to work alternate days if you are off?

Op it’s only discrimination if you can prove they would allow a man to do this without question, take time off for caring without notice, or a woman with other caring responsibilities. So as a woman with kids you’re being treated different to they are.

if they would have the same reaction to anyone taking a lot of unpaid leave, and you say it is a lot right now, then it’s not discurimation.

ultimafely they need to have reliable people who are able to turn up and do the job, sadly your personal circumstances cause difficulties in this.

so they were trying to work out if there was another option for you, as if the answer is no, then they may move to termination. I’m really sorry. But yeah, discrimination is if they wouldn’t do the same to others in different caring scenarios. Be it parents, a spouse, siblings, or even pets.

At risk of stating the obvious, I think you really need to see what you can do to improve your attendance record. Your number of days absent since July is extremely high and it doesn’t matter whether you were paid or not it is still an absence that the employer has had to cover at short notice. Would it help if you offered to make up your time on another day of the week? It might help with showing goodwill.

I don’t see that your employer investigating absences is unfair, the majority of employers are going to investigate this level. At first I thought the questions two and three were over stepping, but after reading all of your posts, I am not so sure. They seem to be relevant questions, you are making a lot about having nobody whatsoever to help but in the same week as one of your absences you go to Amsterdam and your mother has your children. Now of course, it is perfectly conceivable that she was available for one thing but not the other, but it is also a reasonable question for them to ask when you keep saying you have no help whatsoever.

I am not sure why you need to share your children’s medical records, but you should be aware that your employer does not need to make reasonable adjustments relating to your children’s disabilities and you therefore do not have any case against them if they do not.

At this point, I think you can only just wait and see what their next step is.

BHs would be on top.