Threatened with disciplinary after 3 absences

[Acecarad]

I moved to UK to work in NHS 6 months ago. I had an absences of 1 day for diarrhoea and vomiting. Two months later, I got an insect bite in my neck, with caused an allergy, making my neck and throat sell up where I could only take fluids and no solid food. It was very painful and needed steroids to get rud of it. Now I have gotten bronchitis after a cold. I stayed in work and some colleagues and patients were telling me I shouldn't be there as I was coughing so much but my manager threatened disciplinary proceedings if I took another day sick. I have been to thr GP 3 times for different medications, steroids, antibiotics, inhalers to stop the coughing, but it is stll so bad I'm vomiting periodically with it. I have also lost the hearing on one side due to the virus. I haven't been sleeping because of all this snd now feel really exhausted. I emailed ma ager this morning and said I would be absent today, but if the inhalers I was given worked I would be I tomorrow. My manger emailed back to Sat she was sorry I was sock but as I had 3 absences within a year, she had to initiate disciplinary proceeding. I have never been the subject of disciplinary proceedings before. I am thinking of just handing in my notice and goigsck to Ireland. One colleague also said I should toughen up about sickness and just get on with it

I know someone who nearly died from asphyxiation from their throat swelling up from a wasp sting, who had been stung before and it had never been an issue previously. You don't mess about with insect bites and stings if you have an allergic reaction and it can make people very unwell indeed.

Unfortunately some people still don't believe allergies are real and can kill people.

The NHS are way more generous that anywhere else I’ve worked. You’d have your P45 by now in my current job.

Do you have problem understanding?

In training I had in a previous role the issue is not about challenging whether the absences are genuine or not so taking evidence is pretty much irrelevant - it is simply a trigger to start a formal discussion over frequency of absences so support can be offered if needed, or if it continues or becomes a pattern of very regular unrelated absences over a period of time the employee is aware of the impact to the business/service, their colleagues and the potential consequences - whether that is days will be unpaid or actual disciplinary potential leading to termination of employment is started. At the start of the trigging of these processes, although it is formalised so there is a record, it is more weighted toward what support the employee might need and it is recorded this has been offered.

Being off too frequently, regardless of reasons genuine of not (unless there is disability involved), means you are not fulfilling your contract of employment.

If the OP has just been unlucky and her attendance improves there is no issue and after 12 rolling months if improved absence it will no longer be counted. If she continues at this rate of absence it has an impact and it is an issue that should be dealt with.

Welcome to the NHS. I was once put on sickness monitoring because I was having IVF. Their sickness protocols are quite frankly ridiculous.

Wow, what are your sick leave policies?

Please don't worry , you dont need to resign and you'll probably get a stage 1 warning (which comes off your record after a year). It's a 4 stage process before dismissal and that takes a lot of sickness (took about 2 years before i was dismissed on ill health grounds then got ill health retirement). All I will say is get everything documented (see your gp for everything), don't go back to work to early as its on number of episodes not just length. Read the policy and make sure your in a union.

Wow, get a better job where your employer doesn't breach basic employment law.

It's standard practice and isn't really a disciplinary at this stage, just a shit across the bows to be careful, you'll probably get an improvement note or if you say what's happened they may take no action, don't worry 💐

A SHOT across the bow!

Thing is, illness often clusters then you are really stuck. Especially if you have kids and then get their horrid illnesses too. No wonder so many companies are failing to retain staff, people are quiet quitting, or just getting out, and there's a huge shortage of staff in retail, hospitality. Why work somewhere that would want you to come in with D and V, when you can't swallow food and if you are badly unwell with a virus. I don't want anyone like that treating me in the NHS!

Life doesn't come in nice evenly spaced disasters and so this idea that 'it's a lot for 6 months' is ridiculous because that's sometimes what happens, other years nothing happens. Of course, if you then got stressed you could go off for ages on sick pay which is very common, and nothing the NHS seems able to prevent by treating people fairly in the first place. Utterly short-sighted as usual.

Have you been tested for Lyme disease? You have many related symptoms.

It is shit.

Christ, this is absolute bollocks. 3 illnesses triggers a disciplinary? What the hell kind of capitalist dystopian shithole do we live in where this is seen as an ok thing?! You're unwell, it happens. The stress of a disciplinary won't help so it's a useless exercise. People can't help being ill and if we had more supportive workplaces , properly funded healthcare and mental health systems etc we'd probably be sick less often

It's not threatening you, it's informing of what the policy is

It doesn't mean anything will be done, other than documenting that you have had a meeting to discuss your absenses and enquires into what can be done (if anything) to help you reduce it in the future (or does it fall into disability act and it needs to be adjusted for you due to disability) - and sometimes that is telling you to stop trying to come back before you are fully recovered, because off for a day back for 2 then off again with the same illness and repeat is worse than if you just stayed off for 2 weeks and healed

How is 3 short illnesses in six months “a lot”? Is everyone saying this superhuman?

This^

Three absences on six months would also trigger our sickness absence process (public sector employer). It would likely only result in a monitoring period with targets for improvement. It is not, as some have said, a ridiculous response by the manager - it is the correct action under policy. The NHS, like us, would, at this first stage, be more interested in (a) setting targets for improvement, (b) ensuring that there was no underlying reason for frequent sickness absence, and (c) that if there was anything they could do to support improved attendance that that is actioned.

It's remarkable how often posters here lament the "easy" and "generous" terms of employment in the public sector generally, but then start screaming how unfair it is that the sector manages things properly when it does. Three periods of absence within six months is a very high level, no doubt just a period of bad luck, but needs examining.

no wonder the NHS is struggling and short staffed

this is horrible i'd walk - life is too short to work for such a horrible place that you can't even be sick

All I will say is get everything documented (see your gp for everything)

I don't think seeing a GP for D&V is suitable. Don't we self certify for such things?

Absofuckinglutely!!

It's standard practice and isn't really a disciplinary at this stage, just a shit across the bows to be careful, you'll probably get an improvement note or if you say what's happened they may take no action, don't worry

If it's not a disciplinary, why are they calling it one? Words matter. How would people like it if all planning meetings that they were asked to attend were routinely labelled 'gross misconduct inquiry' and told "Don't worry, it isn't really - it's just discussing the working rotas - but were you to decide to just stop turning up for any of your shifts for no reason, then it could become gross misconduct" ?

Also, how can you just 'not worry' if your employer is telling you to 'improve' by which they mean 'don't get sick again'? If everybody could just choose to 'improve' their health and not get sick again, we wouldn't need an NHS in the first place, except for maybe delivering babies. It's all very starkly designed around the assumption that everybody who ever calls in sick must be lying - and therefore can 'improve', by stopping lying and bunking off.

It's a very slippery slope from there to telling disabled people and those with long-term conditions - as well as people who 'just' don't enjoy average good health - that it's their own fault and they just aren't trying hard enough not to be disabled or ill.

It's absolutely gob-smacking how often the NHS can deny the realities of those who suffer from poor health!

I was referred to HR after 5 absences in a year - but it was a referral, not a disciplinary (I have also been through a disciplinary and they were very different in communication.) It was mostly bad luck, and all stuff I ended up at the GP for antibiotics and so on.

It was mostly to discuss whether it was anything like a potential chronic disease diagnosis or cancer or something that would mean I'd be entitled to more support from the company, and also that I wasn't getting pissed off with work, as patterns of sickness can increase as people disengage. It was just a bad year - however, I do think thst if you've had something that hits your immune system hard, it does make you more susceptible to any passing bug that at other times you'd just shake off, until you're back to full strength again.

I haven't been sick since last December. I'm expecting I'll get sick again this December too, I can't seem to avoid it.

I work with children in several different settings, they get sick a lot and have to qualms about coughing in my face and wiping snot on me.

I'm not particularly healthy, I'm obese and not very fit. Yet I manage to get sick only once or maximum twice a year.

So yes, 3 times in 6 months seems a lot to me, unless you've got some underlying condition. I have a friend who's off sick with something or other at least once a month, I think she should be tested because I really don't think it's normal.

EBearhug - your employer seems to have the right idea about it, so that everybody knows where they stand and can get/give/arrange the necessary support.

If you had been lying, they would probably discover it from this process; but they are going from an assumption that you are genuine and wanting to help you and protect the business - which is exactly how it should be.