Threatened with disciplinary after 3 absences

[Acecarad]

I moved to UK to work in NHS 6 months ago. I had an absences of 1 day for diarrhoea and vomiting. Two months later, I got an insect bite in my neck, with caused an allergy, making my neck and throat sell up where I could only take fluids and no solid food. It was very painful and needed steroids to get rud of it. Now I have gotten bronchitis after a cold. I stayed in work and some colleagues and patients were telling me I shouldn't be there as I was coughing so much but my manager threatened disciplinary proceedings if I took another day sick. I have been to thr GP 3 times for different medications, steroids, antibiotics, inhalers to stop the coughing, but it is stll so bad I'm vomiting periodically with it. I have also lost the hearing on one side due to the virus. I haven't been sleeping because of all this snd now feel really exhausted. I emailed ma ager this morning and said I would be absent today, but if the inhalers I was given worked I would be I tomorrow. My manger emailed back to Sat she was sorry I was sock but as I had 3 absences within a year, she had to initiate disciplinary proceeding. I have never been the subject of disciplinary proceedings before. I am thinking of just handing in my notice and goigsck to Ireland. One colleague also said I should toughen up about sickness and just get on with it

This

D+V rules are you are not allowed to return until 48 hours after the symptoms have subsided.

Three separate episodes of illness absence within one calendar year, without a declared disability triggers the Bradford Score

Too high a 'score' and HR get involved

https://www.ciphr.com/advice/understanding-the-bradford-factor-score/

Where I work a disciplinary is triggered by 3 absences or 3% so even if you have 1 absence for 2 weeks you can potentially end up with a written warning. It isn’t about questioning whether the absences are valid, it’s about fulfilling your contract.
I didn’t think this was that uncommon

Sounds shit to me, it's pretty common to be off for three or more days a year I would think if you were unlucky with Covid, flu and D&V bugs.

I'd go to the hearing with any evidence you have but also start looking for another job.

Look on it as the employer having a duty of care to ensure that you are well and if there's anything they can do to support you.

Calling it a disciplinary blows that concept straight out of the water, though.

I get that a lot of people do claim to be sick when they are not, and there's nothing wrong with pursuing enquiries when abuse of the system is suspected; but that doesn't mean that many people don't get genuinely too sick to come into work.

We currently have a widespread situation where genuinely ill people will feel forced to go into work, because they've already had 'too much' sick leave, whereas their dishonest colleagues who are lucky enough to have been healthy and well over the same period can score themselves a couple of nice breaks as a bonus extension of their annual leave, and completely get away with it.

We see the same with attendance records at school, and even the nasty discriminatory practice of giving out awards and privileges for not being ill/disabled/having a long-term health condition. What next: marking down the grades of the kids who use wheelchairs for 'being too lazy to use the stairs'?

Nothing unusual in the nhs, their cunts to work for if your ill. You’re a cog in the machine.

We had to send a colleague home with an insect bite once but it was tracking up her leg and swelling up in front of us so we could hardly keep her there she needed a dr.

It's unfortunate but that is a lot. I've been off sick once in 12 years at the same company!

Wow, you have some draconian work procedures in the UK!!

This isn't something to be proud of.

Sounds like standard procedure and the disciplinary will be a way of seeing if you need any assistance/adjustments regarding your health and job. It's a shame the word 'disciplinary' is used, it causes fear unnecessarily. You mention going to Ireland, have you worked there? Or do you think they have more sick days or different procedures when someone is ill??

Standard in my trust, 3 periods of absence or 10+days invokes a chat, which can lead to an informal SAP.
They're all unrelated absences, sadly it seems you have been unlucky health wise.
You may have a sympathetic manager who will not progress it further but if you do incur another absence in a rolling 12 months then you may go for the informal.
I'm clinical, and I manage a clinical team, I would take into consideration absence V risk to patients. Clearly with D+V you should not be at work, along with your other 2 absences I personally wouldn't put you on an informal but monitor closely.

I really wouldn't worry at this stage.

Thanks all for your replies. They have been very helpful. Re emailing in. I emailed and called my manager. I think I will go back to ireland in a couple of months. I am 57 so technically more liable to get sick, and I am afraid of getting sick again. Probably the stress of moving has my immune system depleted.

Calling it a disciplinary blows that concept straight out of the water, though.

I agree. Disciplinaries are linked to wrongdoing and incompetence. I would not be happy to have genuine illness considered in the same breath as anything disciplinary-related. It isn’t in the least supportive in the least to have written warnings hanging over your head - as referred to by at least one pp - for something beyond your control.

It's unfortunate but that is a lot. I've been off sick once in 12 years at the same company!

It's good that you've been lucky; but OP's sicknesses have hardly been an excessive amount that you'd never expect anybody could possibly have in that period.

If only there were a very large, long-experienced healthcare providing organisation that her NHS employers could consult with, who might be able to advise them on a wide spectrum of realistic individuals' sickness and healthcare needs...

It’s standard policy that they’re following. It’ll just be investigating why you’re ill. I imagine they have to do it because some people take the piss with sick days, but it sounds like you have genuine reasons.

I don't blame you, OP.

In one breath people are complaining about the over 50s leaving the workforce, in another we are expecting people to power on through illness and are also not mindful that there are millions of people waiting for surgery and other treatment.

I disagree! If I get bitten by a horsefly I swell up like mad and have to have a GP appointment to get meds to help the swelling. Normally I can work but once I got bitten on my ear and just under my eye and I could barely see. People react differently to insect bites.

You do understand that people can have allergic reactions to insect stings, don't you?
Maybe the one day for D&V was the day prior to OP having a couple of days off and so was fully better by the time she needed to be at work again.

The procedure is there, but your thinking seems quite narrow.

Hi - don’t worry too much, I’m NHS and most of us are on the pathway at some point, it’s pretty draconian. The first step is normally an informal meeting and then you agree if you go sick again x amount of times in the next three months then you’ll have a formal meeting and it goes on and on from there. You have to be sick a LOT to progress to the next stages, it sort of gets more generous.

It’s poor form to bring this up when you’re actually off though, really unsupportive and uncaring. It’s a conversation for your RTW interview. Remember sickness is counted in periods not days so you may as well be off now until you’re really better.

@Acecarad I'm the same age as you and really feel for you. It's insane! Can't get enough staff yet three times off sick calls for a disciplinary. Humans get sick and it's a fact of life, the health advice is to rest till you're better yet managers employ as few people as they can get away with, work them to the bone (judging by some threads on MN) then 'discipline' for being ill. I believe that research shows that if people feel supported in their workplace they take less time off so the whole disciplinary thing backfires anyway.
It infuriates me when people don't read the post properly and then say that most people wouldn't take time off for an insect bite. No most people wouldn't, but if it was causing your throat to swell I'm pretty certain they would.
I hope you find something that works for you OP

@Acecarad Do you still have the hearing loss - and have you got it checked out? If not, you need to ASAP. If it’s sensorineural loss (rather than conductive) you need high dose (60mg) oral steroids as soon as possible and ask about steroid injections.
I had this 7 months ago, though no other symptoms of illness/virus, and the hearing loss unfortunately turned out to be permanent. Please don’t leave it x

Standard policy. Talk to your union, get a rep to come with you to the meeting. If you are not a m6, consider joining. You could also take a colleague for support. Take with you all of the details about your absences. Meds, doctors note etc. I certainly wouldn't resign.

Thanks again for all the replies. Re the insect bite - I and my children and my.mum.when she was alive,gave extreme reactions yo insect bites - my daughter and I have both gad antibiotics for infected bites this year. We use insect spray or citronella thoughput the summer, but still get them. Procedures on Ireland gor sickness are more strict in recent years, but there is no set amount which triggers a referral to HR, but there isa return to work interview after sickness. Healthcare is still very unionised in Ireland, so having a policy where 3 absences triggers a disciplinary process would cause uproar.

I’m genuinely shocked by this thread. Disciplinary for being sick? Christ, no wonder it can't recruit.

Thanks, they're still going with the plums cred for advice re gearing loss. I still have it. Dr on call just gave me decongestant said it would go in a few months. I think I will just go to my GP I'm Ireland when I go back i two weeks.

Re sick leave and staying off until we'll. I'm still coughing and wheezing every few minutes, but am afraid to stay off longer. I'm on antibiotics snd steroid inhaler

She wasn't off for the insect bite, she was off for the allergic reaction, you know potentially life threatening ffs