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Original poster

Threatened with disciplinary after 3 absences

117 replies

Acecarad · 11/10/2023 08:51

I moved to UK to work in NHS 6 months ago. I had an absences of 1 day for diarrhoea and vomiting. Two months later, I got an insect bite in my neck, with caused an allergy, making my neck and throat sell up where I could only take fluids and no solid food. It was very painful and needed steroids to get rud of it. Now I have gotten bronchitis after a cold. I stayed in work and some colleagues and patients were telling me I shouldn't be there as I was coughing so much but my manager threatened disciplinary proceedings if I took another day sick. I have been to thr GP 3 times for different medications, steroids, antibiotics, inhalers to stop the coughing, but it is stll so bad I'm vomiting periodically with it. I have also lost the hearing on one side due to the virus. I haven't been sleeping because of all this snd now feel really exhausted. I emailed ma ager this morning and said I would be absent today, but if the inhalers I was given worked I would be I tomorrow. My manger emailed back to Sat she was sorry I was sock but as I had 3 absences within a year, she had to initiate disciplinary proceeding. I have never been the subject of disciplinary proceedings before. I am thinking of just handing in my notice and goigsck to Ireland. One colleague also said I should toughen up about sickness and just get on with it

OP posts:
PickledPurplePickle · 11/10/2023 08:54

It's standard procedure - they are following policy

But 3 separate incidence of sickness in 6 months is a lot

Timeforchangeithink · 11/10/2023 08:54

Check your sickness procedure, we are 7 days but we're a small organisation

fattytum · 11/10/2023 08:54

sounds normal - ( an insect bite is a strange thing to be absent for!).One day off for DandV would also have raised a red flag

They will need to put you on monitoring and possibly send you to OH after 3 unrelated absences - standard procedure

Whattodo112222 · 11/10/2023 08:58

I think its more so with having 3 separate sets of absences so close together that is the subject of action. If for example you took several days off sick in one absence period, it would be less questionable..
It won't be a formal disciplinary at first stage. It will start off as an informal conversation with your manager about your well being, seeing if occupational health can help.
She will type up the notes and send you a copy of the conversation.
If you have another bout of absence that is what will trigger a second stage disciplinary which is more formal and you are likely to be referred to occupational health.
I think you need to toughen up a little bit and not just immediately quit your job, you don't sound very resilient tbh.
However, it just sounds like bad luck OP, you'll get a chance to explain that.

NewmummyJ · 11/10/2023 08:59

I am so sorry. Welcome to the NHS. This is a far too common occurance. Are you a member of a union? This should just be a stage one meeting, although seems a ridiculous response by your manager- punitive and unnecessary. She doesn't have to do anything- she can use her managerial discretion and common sense. Sounds like bullying to me.

NnarcissaMalfoy · 11/10/2023 09:03

Don't worry about this OP- the NHS Bradford score system is very punitive for multiple short absences and its very stressful. But as pp have said, it will just be a discussion at this stage, you won't lose your job or anything! Don't let it affect you; you've been unlucky and you know yourself you were genuinely sick and not taking the piss. Good advice from pp about joining a union too.

Startingagainandagain · 11/10/2023 09:08

No wonder the NHS is struggling with recruiting and retaining staff...

This sounds like a ridiculous action from your employer.

People can't avoid being sick.

I wish I did not have to say that but if you are a healthcare professional have you considered working for an agency or private healthcare? you are more likely to be treated decently and make more money that way...

jlpth · 11/10/2023 09:11

Make sure you get photos and videos of illnesses.

Did you take a photo of your neck when you had that problem? Did you message a friend or relative? Those messages are evidence.

Literally, I would video yourself coughing and vomiting

The photos/videos are timestamped and evidence the illness. That way, you can supply it for the disciplinary procedures.

Evidence is key

Whattodo112222 · 11/10/2023 09:17

It won't be anything formal at this stage OP so don't panic. A good manager wouldn't threaten disciplinary action like that. They'd contact you confidentially and tell you they're arranging a time for a 1:1 to discuss your absences and ask you if there's anything they can do to help.
It says a lot about the manager.
Perhaps maybe have a third party in the room with you during your conversation.

EmmaEmerald · 11/10/2023 09:19

fattytum · 11/10/2023 08:54

sounds normal - ( an insect bite is a strange thing to be absent for!).One day off for DandV would also have raised a red flag

They will need to put you on monitoring and possibly send you to OH after 3 unrelated absences - standard procedure

Did you actually read the post?

sorry OP, it can be a standard trigger in some places.

AlisonDonut · 11/10/2023 09:21

fattytum · 11/10/2023 08:54

sounds normal - ( an insect bite is a strange thing to be absent for!).One day off for DandV would also have raised a red flag

They will need to put you on monitoring and possibly send you to OH after 3 unrelated absences - standard procedure

Well, not if you can't breathe it isn't.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 11/10/2023 09:21

This is standard. False sickness can cost business a lot of money so some larger org's use a three periods of sickness in 12 months rule. Just document your illness with any evidence you have e.g. date on your medicine box, and you'll be fine.

gotomomo · 11/10/2023 09:22

It's pretty standard, just means it's investigated. 3 separate absences is a lot in 6 months, the computer algorithm doesn't know you personally remember, and if they are legitimate then it will all be fine

LeroyJenkinssss · 11/10/2023 09:31

It’s just a stage 1 sickness policy. It’s nothing to get too worked up about. I’ve had one in the past and all it was was a sit down with the manager to see if there was anything they needed to do / highlight a problem. In my case it was just random bad luck coupled with kids bringing diseases from school.

often managers can’t exercise their discretion and not do them as they could then be accused of favouritism/bullying. Our managers get automatic emails highlighting the need to do a review when the policy criteria is met. You really need to relax about this

Dacadactyl · 11/10/2023 09:37

Don't panic.

In my organisation, if you have 3 periods of sickness in 18 months (doesn't matter if its 3 separate days or 3 separate weeks of illness) you are subject to the sickness policy, which is a meeting with management.

It's never applied to me, but colleagues tell me it's more of a supportive meeting where managers look at what they can do to help you stay in work.

Nannyfannybanny · 11/10/2023 09:41

Unfortunately I had exactly the same. One was a complicated tooth extraction by a maxfax surgeon. They were warned in advance, I had a dry socket,it was just before Christmas, not even an emergency dental service
I had a car accident,hit rear end, while stationary at a roundabout,so hard it wrote off a big chunky estate,a virus. Ward manager Gave me a formal, written warning and matron involved. Said for the next 6 months SHE was in charge of my sickness,!! I was night staff,day staff weren't treated like this. Consequently,a hell of a lot of staff went to work ill. She threatened to stop my sick pay!

Confusedddddddd · 11/10/2023 09:44

Jeez 3 absences in 6 months is nothing. I'm appalled the NHS do that. There is no way you should be in work with D&V! Or being unable to eat solids. Especially since Covid, none of us have immune systems, and you shouldn't be in work spreading things around.
I'm never sick usually - I've taken 2 days off in the last 5 years, but since the return to the office 6 months ago I've been off so much but my employer hasn't batted an eyelid - it's the same for everyone.

Blanketpolicy · 11/10/2023 09:46

NewmummyJ · 11/10/2023 08:59

I am so sorry. Welcome to the NHS. This is a far too common occurance. Are you a member of a union? This should just be a stage one meeting, although seems a ridiculous response by your manager- punitive and unnecessary. She doesn't have to do anything- she can use her managerial discretion and common sense. Sounds like bullying to me.

What part sounds like bullying to you?

3 instances of sick leave triggering the start of absence procedures is pretty standard for many companies and is far from NHS specific. In any company I have worked with the procedures have to be invoked to ensure everyone is treated the same and consistently, the manager cannot apply discretion to them being invoked because they are logged in the HR system. The manager can be supportive, ask if the employee needs help, document they have had a few unlucky instances in a short period of time but they cant stop the process.

If the op is not off again in the rolling 12 months nothing more will come off it.

Nannyfannybanny · 11/10/2023 09:46

Before this I wasn't off sick for years. We had to phone this London company,tell a complete stranger our personal medical problems, they were completely non-medical. Occasionally, they would get a nurse to ring you with advice. They then emailed the ward manager, which was a joke,if she had gone home! You weren't meant to ring the ward,and frankly, you might not fancy telling your male colleagues some of the problems.

Jethia · 11/10/2023 09:48

Yes it's standard in NHS. It's because it's flagged on the system you've had 3 periods of sickness absence in 6 months, which is a lot. System doesn't care whether it's a day or a week it's still a sickness absence. And actually single days is a red flag for managers.

It'll just be a discussion about your absences and you'll be given a written copy of the discussions. A stage 1 meeting is really to highlight and discuss your absence record. It's not a disciplinary

VeridicalVagabond · 11/10/2023 09:55

Startingagainandagain · 11/10/2023 09:08

No wonder the NHS is struggling with recruiting and retaining staff...

This sounds like a ridiculous action from your employer.

People can't avoid being sick.

I wish I did not have to say that but if you are a healthcare professional have you considered working for an agency or private healthcare? you are more likely to be treated decently and make more money that way...

I work in private healthcare and ours is also three absences max over a 12 month period or you go into "attendance review". There are exceptions of course and most managers use common sense to determine that, but that's the baseline.

It's not an unusual policy. It's very standard practice in a lot of places, not just the NHS. It doesn't mean she's going to get sacked or even get in trouble, it'll just be a conversation and possibly an OH referral.

Mochudubh · 11/10/2023 09:57

It's very common in the public sector to be automatically referred to OH if you have 3 absences or a single absence of 21 days or more in a rolling 12 month period.

Look on it as the employer having a duty of care to ensure that you are well and if there's anything they can do to support you.

Jethia · 11/10/2023 10:01

emailed ma ager this morning and said I would be absent today, but if the inhalers I was given worked I would be I tomorrow. My manger emailed back to Sat she was sorry I was sock but as I had 3 absences within a year,

I'm amazed in NHS you're allowed to report absence by email and manager responds by email!
Every Trust and dept I've worked in you must phone in before a certain time to report you're off and manager will always phone back to talk to you

fieldsatnightfall · 11/10/2023 10:02

I also got for the NHS op. It isn't normal to start a disciplinary for 3 periods of sickness. Are you sure you've got it right? There are sickness stages in the NHS but as far as I know these were phased out last year and replaced with managers discretion about how many periods they will allow. You shouldn't be disciplined but you would have hit a stage 1 sickness trigger which is absence monitoring.

I'm signed off sick with stress at the moment and I'm having stupid daily text messages from my manager pestering me about nonsense/her diet/what she's wearing today. Obviously making me more stressed. Welcome to the NHS. The 'caring' profession.

stayathomer · 11/10/2023 10:04

The people here who are all ‘yes that’s normal, how can you be sick this much’ are nuts!!!! Crazy!!!!! Every single run of us standing at a till feeling like shit started with us saying to someone’you need to go home’ and them saying I can’t I’ve been off too much. (Whispers start job hunting op and the health service would be happy to get you back to Ireland!!!)