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Original poster

all flexible working requests refused. its 7am til 6ishpm 5 days or nothing.....

54 replies

madeindevon2 · 29/02/2008 15:24

i dont feel i can handle this ....would need to leave baby with someone at 6am to commute into London. plus i have to work for as long as its busy so you never know....sometimes 5.30 sometimes 6.30...how does that fit with organising childcare?
Ive been in this role for 10 years. i thought they might have given a little ( i asked for 8 til 5 so wasnt ridiculous!)
I feel they are trying to push me out.
(there are no other woman working there...let alone mothers.)
psd off but also worried for the future.
can i ask them to make me redundant? then try get another job doing something different?

OP posts:
Monkeybird · 29/02/2008 15:27

You don't have to tell us but what is it that you do?

Did you put your request in writing? Did you get a written response back explaining why it wouldn't be possible? Think you need a Human Resources expert to tell you what your rights are but seems v unreasonable to give a flat refusal to me...

You do have some statutory rights in this situation...

I think perhaps if you can afford it you might be best with a childminder or nanny if you need that sort of flexibility - they can often accommodate later hours ad hoc whereas most nurseries close by 6...

Monkeybird · 29/02/2008 15:27

the other question is I guess, do you want to go back/be made redundant?

Kathyis6incheshigh · 29/02/2008 15:29

Sorry, no good advice I'm afraid, but.... that sucks.
It strikes me as rather ironic that you are the one having to 'request flexible working' when they are the ones expecting you to be infinitely flexible.
You're asking for reasonable hours ffs!
Good luck.

Original poster
madeindevon2 · 29/02/2008 15:31

im an energy broker.
yes i put request in writing. someone from HR was present at the meeting. she kept waffling on about them trying to accommodate me but everything i asked for the boss said it wasnt possible for the business.
i dont think i can leave my son 6am til 6.30pm 5 days a week. I got my head around 7am til 5.30pm and have arrangements in place for that.
i guess i feel i cant go back under those conditions

OP posts:
PrincessHunker · 29/02/2008 15:32

What business reason have they given? Just saying "business reasons" not good enough, afaik.

Squiffy · 29/02/2008 15:33

7am till 6pm in the office? What is it that you do?

Regardless of that, you are entitled to appeal and they have to tell you on what grounds they are refusing this request.

On no account should you ask them for redundancy - they could say no and then use this against you if you ever wanted to take them to a tribunal (also, if they think they can get rid of you by refusing your flexi request then they won't bother making you redundant)

If a redundancy is ultimately what you want, then you need to start making a fuss about their unreasonableness and send them some formal letters about your rights under the flexi legislation and so on. That will make them realise you are not a pushover and then they themselves might offer a compromise arrangement to get you out of their hair.

rantinghousewife · 29/02/2008 15:34

You need flowerybeanbag, she will know the answer. I think they have to prove that they've considered your request and that their business will suffer if they grant your request. But Flowery will know the full legal terms.

Original poster
madeindevon2 · 29/02/2008 15:36

he gave a few business reasons i just wasnt going into details here.
yes i will appeal.
sorry i gotta jump. back later

OP posts:
weeonion · 29/02/2008 15:41

madeindevon - poor poor you. i was ina similar position a few weeks back - i asked to work in my local city 2 days a week to avoid 5-6hrs commuting each day. boss turned me down but i appealed. i eventually won this so - do appeal. build your case in advance of hearing. dont let it get you down but keep your eyes open for other work. do you know anyone in a similar position in another agency who works hours the same as you have requested?

Fennel · 29/02/2008 15:43

That's a hard decision, madeindevon. Do you have a partner, if so what hours do they work?

do you live in Devon, by the way?

Squiffy · 29/02/2008 15:45

Sorry - x posts.

I'm in investment banking myself so know where you are coming from. You need to set out a letter exlaining how you think it COULD work. And to do that you need to see the problem from their side and come up with all the reasons as to why their arguments can be overcome.

Examples of what you might be able to do

  1. cover the US market - same hours, but you will have the mornings off to be with your baby and will work in the evenings when baby is sleeping.
  2. cross to research or marketing?
  3. offer to do even longer hours to cover Europe and US three days a week, take 2 days off

If you yourself can see a way of it workign then why not suggest that you and the company give it a try for three months and that if it doesn't work you will be happy to accept a redundancy package?

I have found that the trick has been to be exceptionally flexible yourself in all of this and to just keep on presenting them with clear logical arguments. Whatever you do don;t present arguments based around anything to do with how difficult it is for you and how loyal you have been to them or any other 'soft' stuff. It won't cut any ice and will make you look a bit weak maybe.

Original poster
madeindevon2 · 29/02/2008 17:26

hi
thanks for all your advice.
unfortunatly Swiffy none of the examples you give could apply. I work solely in the UK gas market whose market base is wholely in Europe. It isnt like investment banking in that respect. There isnt any cross over with the US market at all as its a physical market.
We dont have a marketing department and research consists of 2 people...no options there.

I will write a letter saying how it could work. I did suggest a trial period of 3-6 months but that too was rejected.

I am from Devon but i dont live there due to work (although am often there holidays weekends etc)

OP posts:
Original poster
madeindevon2 · 29/02/2008 17:27

my husband works in a similar job at a different company. similar hours...

OP posts:
Judy1234 · 29/02/2008 18:08

It's not unusual hours for some types of job. The way most people who commute to the City that I kow deal with it is a live in nanny if you need to cover early mornings or one spouse goes into work a little later - husband gets in for 9.45 and wife leaves on tiem or the nanny works to 7pm or whatever. It's very workable. A few families I know with both parents working that kind of hours with 4 or more children often have an au pair living in too if you have the space (or can buy them a flat) so there's relief there too. Lots and lots of people manage it because those kinds of hours usually mean good money so you can afford the cost or can bear it for the few years you need it.

avenanap · 29/02/2008 18:13

It depends on how many people work for the company and how much it affects the running of the workhouse company. You are following the grievance procedure laid down by acas, which is good. I would have a chat to the equal opportunities commission, they have a helpline, the numbers on their website.

Judy1234 · 29/02/2008 18:19

In a sense if there are no other women there you owe it to women in future and any daughtesr you have to be able to work the hours the job requires which presumably your husband is proposing to do. Why can't you if he can? Or why can't you share the role of being first home with the child or are you in a very sexist marriage?

needmorecoffee · 29/02/2008 18:21

I'd put my baby first.

blueshoes · 29/02/2008 18:23

madeindevon2, in your opinion, can your job be realistically done between 8 and 5? eg, must you be there for market opening/close? Can you write a reasonable business case supporting those hours?

needmorecoffee · 29/02/2008 18:36

Can you not get another job and get to spend time with your baby? They grow so fast and money is only money.

rookiemater · 29/02/2008 20:26

Ok I'm in a non mega important job so I'm trying to get my head round this but surely there are some European directives about how many hours you can require someone to work and your job seems to be in excess of that.

What hours does your contract stipulate ?

Judy1234 · 29/02/2008 20:48

Tghere are lot of jobs where you work the hours needed. You don't leave the operating table during a 10 hour operation. You don't leave the meeeting room if you've been in there all night until the deal is done. These jobs are worth it - they are highly paid, often very interesting and actually a lot more fun than being with a baby 24/7. Many women continue to do them after they have children and are happy with that but some aren't. Some jobs are just not possible to do on a shorter hours basis and therefore many men and women choose to leave them. However if you're very good and there is some flexibility usually employers will bend over backwards to keep you, allow working from home and changes in hours just about anything to stop that nearest rival poaching you because you're like gold dust if you're good at some of these jobs.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 29/02/2008 20:59

There are lots of exceptions to European Working Time Directive, Rookiemater. Most professional/management jobs, I think.

Kathyis6incheshigh · 29/02/2008 21:01

Contracts don't always have hours on, either - they just say something about working as required to fulfil the needs of the job.

Judy1234 · 29/02/2008 21:06

We don't really know if she's in that kind of job actually where the rewards justify the hours. I always felt mine did although I never got in as early as that. In fact I worked longest hours of all working for myself but that's even more fun and much better than baby minding. Anyway in terms of practicalities men and women sort this out by having a live in nanny or by husband and wife alternative as to who leaves the house first. Remember never as a woman accept that it's up to you to sort out child care. That's the route of all problems and inequalities both in your marriage and in terms of example for the future to your own chidlren and indeed to people around you. We are all more of an influence on others and example to others than we think.

Perhaps the cheapest and best option is just to buy a bit of therapy to show you that working the longer hours could in fact be good for you, your marriage, your employers, their clients and the baby - win win all round. Employers should hire me for this. I'd be good and save them a fortune and cheer up their employees too

chelsygirl · 01/03/2008 09:06

agree with nmc

feel we are in a minority though