KIT meeting was horrible and now I don't want to go back to work :(

[NightandViolets]

I posted recently about missing out on a job at second round interview and being gutted about it. My mat leave is ending soon and I was really keen to find something more local and less pressurised, especially as things have really changed at work recently and I don't feel valued in the way I used to be. But with missing out on this job I've accepted I probably need to go back and keep my ear to the ground for future opps.

I had a KIT meeting last week as I've asked to reduce my hours when I go back. The last meeting was cancelled as I've been very ill recently, so it's been a while.

I'm probably feeling pretty fragile atm but it was so horrible I just don't know where I stand. Everything that I suggested to make my life easier when I go back (eg working from home a little more as I ease in) was just shut down immediately and I was made to feel bad for even asking. My manager kept bringing up her own kids and saying that I shouldn't get any special treatment, and I just didn't know what to say. I asked what we could have in place to make sure that if I reduce hours my work reduces accordingly and I don't get contacted on days off unless urgent, but instead of being supportive they jsut said it was my choice to ask for flexibility, so I've got no confidence that I won't just go back to the same workload and stress levels of before and get paid a lot less for the privilege.

By the end of the meeting I was exhausted and just so shocked at how I'd been spoken to. I hadn't been rude or pushy at any point but they just weren't on the same page as me at all. I don't know where I stand and will keep looking at other jobs but I need to be realistic that I probably need to go back. How do I recover from this?

It’s only a small business and Hr was represented at the meeting too, and equally difficult about it all

Yes DH is around- his work is not especially flexible but he will be involved with settling in baby too. I just remember it being hard last time so I’d feel more comfortable being nearby to start with

Maybe for some, but I’ve always worked well and hard from home, especially as I can finish later as not dashing for a train, and fewer distractions.

I mentioned above that it wasn’t strictly a KIT day - it was a meeting requested by them specifically on the return to work and flex request

I think you’ve had some awful replies. I would expect them to consider your requests and try to support the return. Where I work it’s recognised that returning after maternity is hard on many levels so extra support is built in- some time shadowing colleagues, time for refresher training and regular meetings with managers.
it sounds like a stressful and unsupportive environment and if it’s 2 hours away I would seriously move elsewhere.

What a lot of weird replies! Any organisation worth working for will try to support a woman returning from maternity leave. It’s not ‘entitled’ to ask for flexible working, and it’s not a demand for special treatment to expect some recognition that these are special circumstances. Some flexibility, at least temporarily, is completely reasonable after the birth of a child. It doesn’t matter if other people aren’t getting the same. Unless they’ve just given birth, the circumstances are different. Running a business is not a reason to treat employees like robots. It’s the 21st century: surely about time we made things better for women in the workplace.

Other than the childcare point, how does any of that impact carrying out work?

Everything that I suggested to make my life easier when I go back (eg working from home a little more as I ease in)

This - I think they'll want you in more - it's not their problem you live so far away. If you want a day off then book one in that might help?

I asked what we could have in place to make sure that if I reduce hours my work reduces accordingly and I don't get contacted on days off unless urgent, but instead of being supportive they jsut said it was my choice to ask for flexibility so what were your ideas for this? What did you suggest?

I don’t think these replies are massively unsympathetic, truly.

Yes, it is an adjustment going back off maternity leave. Yes, you can ask for some extra flex to ease back in, and it’s absolutely amazing if your employer wants to offer that.

But - if they don’t seem especially enthusiastic to do so, as in this case, then that’s not terrible either. We have the right to request flexible working, not the right to demand or assume. And if they find it difficult from a business ops POV then that doesn’t mean they’re not keen to have you back at work - it could mean the opposite, in some cases.

All the OP has really said is her manager didn’t seem very sympathetic, which is subjective, and that this meeting about reducing hours was focused on how it would affect the OP rather than how the OP would make the new hours work for the business without adversely affecting them, which is the basis of how to frame a flexible working request.

Everything that I suggested to make my life easier when I go back (eg working from home a little more as I ease in) was just shut down immediately

I just think it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of where the responsibility lies. The employer would absolutely in an ideal world value the OP enough to want to negotiate some extra flex in the early return to work days. But equally they’re totally within their rights to expect OP to come back after a year with secure childcare, and a desire to get back stuck in.

OP, if you’ve been ill on top of regular maternity leave that’s probably where your focus should be - but also perhaps you will feel 100% better by the time you need to return. It’s hard to tell but honestly I’m not reading anything very awful in how your return to work talks went.

Did you get any maternity pay from the company on top of statutory pay? If you did there might be a minimum time you need to go back for or they will ask for it to be repaid. If you just got statutory maternity pay you don't have to return there - is it worth looking for another job that's a bit more flexible / closer to home? Are you in position to take something lower paid but less stressful?

The company doesn't have to give you flexibility, but it would be in their interest to try and retain their experienced staff - recruiting and training new staff costs money too. No-one gains when places work their employees into the ground. If you do find something else and leave make sure you tell them why - for a couple of months flexibility they could save themselves a whole lot of bother!

The tone of some PP really grinds on me. It’s very old school to think women returning from Mat leave ‘just need to get on with it and not play the mother card’

EVERYONE is eligible to submit a Flexi Working Request. It’s not being a ‘difficult employee’.

I did. I asked to go from 5 days to 4 days. It was approved. They said it had to be Fridays. I did my research online, wrote a persuasive formal Appeal letter to my director and HR and they gave me a trial period of Weds off which is what I requested and was originally requested.

the trial went fine and I kept my Wednesdays off. I also built into my contract that I had minimum 1 day a week at home, this was approved. Companies can be accommodating. Yes the formal meetings were intimidating and yes I did have to work v hard to stand up for myself.

Goodness what a smug boasty post. Go you. Slow hand clap.

no one is disputing the op cant put in a flexi working request, in fact it’s been said multiple times how acceptable that is.

what’s been said is recognise why you’re employer said no. And as such, if you do need the job then yes you need to get on with it.

but way to go boasting your employer said yes and hers didn’t. I’m sure she feels better now.

Again your tone is unnecessary.

I didn’t post my story as a boast weirdly enough - the main point is is needs to be a formal meeting not just a conversation. Then they have to give you a proper reason from the ACAS list of reasons to decline (I have also been a manager and hosted one of these meetings). You can think push back on these reasons as often you have prove it’s not in the business strictly interests just their preference. You have to play them at their own HR game. Otherwise you risk being walked all over.

Also I gave details of what happened to me because often that’s peoples closest frame of reference - I’m not gonna post some story of what happened to someone else that I found on a blog online am I?!
I posted to say that not all employers shut you down - you can have success stories.

Anyway, I’m over and out replying to you, too early on a Friday for this!

Having managed a team with numerous mat leave returners over the years, the main point where people fell down when requesting new hours / working arrangements was a total failure to take any account of the impact on other team members / how the work would get done / others' working arrangements already in place. So they would come in with a plan that didn't work for the business at all, then get proper mardy that they couldn't have exactly what they wanted, threaten to leave etc. I had one woman throw an absolute wobbler that she couldn't have Fridays off 'it's not fair A and B have Friday off!' Er yes Doris that's exactly why you can't have it too, we need cover!

Those who got what they wanted had generally thought it through, considered which were the busy days, who else was in, what flexibility they could offer should we need it, spoken to their immediate colleagues to ensure everyone was OK with it in terms of covering for their non-working times etc. It's all about the angle that you're coming from.

As for WFH, post pandemic to me it seems that a lot of employers are struggling with balance / fairness. I strongly suspect that if they let you do the WFH that you want, other employees whose requests have been denied will immediately jump on it as unfair, hence them shutting it down immediately. Or that once you do it and like it, you won't be willing to switch back to the office and it will be harder for them to deny once it's in place.

Kindly OP, maybe this isn't the job/employer for you. There are lots of employers out there that are hugely flexible and really care about work / life balance (I work for one now, it's been a revelation!). Keep looking!

There was more to it in the meeting really. The tone (towards me) was angry, even exasperated. They made out they were bending over backwards to accommodate me and I shouldn't be asking for anything else, when I framed everything as a reasonable request and didn't push. I was told that as someone senior I should understand what is expected of me. I was made to feel bad that I'm asking for flexibility when my manager has none (to my knowledge she hasn't requested any, but could). At the end despite seeing I was very upset they tried to make jokes and get rid of me asap.

No i don't need to pay anything back as I didn't get much above statutory. I'm looking for something and can take a (small) pay cut to just about manage, but it's hard.

With you on this -I appreciate success stories that it can work! And have made it work for people I manage when they make requests. It's a two way convo and should be respectful.

I did spend a lot of time putting together notes for my request and thinking through what would work best ie what days are less busy and where we have cover. It jsut seems to have derailed recently. And yes am going to keep looking!

This is such a tricky one. The reality is that they may be nervous as they have already made a massive accommodation for you during pregnancy and may be (perhaps correctly) reading into your requests as a lack of enthusiasm for the job. My experience as a manager is that it’s very easy to spot whether women returning from mat leave still have their heart in it or not - and for the latter group it usually causes ongoing issues because they don’t actually really want to be there.

that said, there are also some dick employers around. Only you know truly which camp yours are in. I would say that there is no way on earth I would
be doing a 2 hour each way commute with or without kids!

finally you need to have a chat with your dh about how it’s going to work when you’re back. It’s all very well to say he’s inflexible but if you are both working full time he needs to figure out how to create some flex otherwise you will be on a hiding to nothing from day 1. Can he put in a flexible working request at his work to help support you through your transition? He could also access parental leave (up to 4 weeks per child per year) if that was an option - businesses cannot refuse this, they can only make suggestions as to the timing of it.

I've recently returned to work after my second baby and it's been very difficult.
During my maternity leave I was only contacted for 5 mins every 2-3 months despite my manager being required to contact me every month for a full round up of what i was missing.

When I came back he didn't meet me in person, didn't inform ANYONE I was coming back, including the other manager on the team, didn't inform me that all of the staff were new as everyone bar one had left and been replaced, didn't give me the time to catch up on mandatory training, didn't give me any time to read up on what I'd missed, just told me to get on with it and allocated me some shitty cases. It was an absolute joke and far worse than after my first maternity leave which was also crap to return after. He's on extended leave now so I since I got back I've spoken to him once on the phone and that was to pass on a bollocking from higher management that my cases hadn't been done in the 2 weeks I'd been back. He didn't have the gumption to explain to them that I'd been on maternity leave hence why they hadn't been done 🙄 (they take weeks/months/years, definitely not days)

Im full time and my manager knows I do not have my children in my care if I work from home yet on the last day of my maternity leave he called me and gave me a very stern warning about doing so. I was fuming and it very much felt like they didn't want me back.

OP I sympathise with you as it can really feel like you're not wanted. It definitely sounds like they were being insensitive in how they gave their refusal. I think a lot of places have outdated views and practices. I work within government but my manager is so out of touch with how he's supposed to deal with things it's laughable.
Knowing they likely don't want you back just ruins the end of maternity leave and I was dreading it for months after getting several 'oh you'll surely not be coming back' comments.

despite my manager being required to contact me every month for a full round up of what i was missing

Whose requirement was this? HR advice is not to contact anyone while they are on maternity leave at my firm. People can book KIT days if they wish, or ring for updates if they wish, but it’s not mandatory and can’t be added as a requirement from either party

I think up till recently I've (hopefully) seemed pretty enthusiastic about going back. I was in regular contact and usually the one making contact but sometimes I wouldn't get a response and that rattled me a bit. But this flexible stuff has been so difficult and drawn out that along with knowing how stressful the job is and how much has changed (most staff leaving atm) I am feeling I'd rather find something else. The person who is covering my role atm is doing well I think, and I know they would like to stay and that my manager gets on v well with them (and recruited them, when she didn't recruit me). So although they can't push me out on that basis they might be feeling underneath it all that it'd be easier if I just don't come back and they can keep someone on who's doing well and not rocking the boat with flex requests.

Oh, and DH hopefully going to compress hours slightly in early stages, which will help a little.

I’m surprised by some of the responses to this! OP your manager sounds horrible. The fact that she said you “can’t expect special treatment” says a lot about her attitude towards you I think. If she’d have said something along the lines of “we have to treat any flexible working request you make in line with our policy and business need, and I think that we’d be unlikely to be agree to your request for XX because of XX” then that would have been totally different. Saying you can’t expect special treatment just sounds hostile and it’s unnecessary.

Also, good practise is for organisations to go out of their way to make a woman’s return to work after mat leave as smooth and welcoming as possible, and not just focus on business need. What’s so awful about them allowing an increased number of wfh days for a set period of weeks? They could very easily put in writing that it’s being allowed as a temporary measure for X weeks as part of your transition back from maternity leave and that it will not be a permanent arrangement. Just because lots of companies are still shit at this, it doesn’t mean there should be a race to the bottom.

Tbh the KIT day is not where you ask them how they can make your life easier. If you are asking for flexible working you need to show how it can work for them. They don't have to say yes.