Enforced resignation

[Hatemylife2023]

Hi,

Just wonder if anyone has been in a situation maybe with somewhere like the NHS where they don’t advise you to hand in notice until you’ve a firm unconditional offer.

Fortunately I’m only on a week’s notice and then could be out so I accept this isn’t so problematic.

Before I could ask what type of reference if any basically a reference request received simply got me a ‘strong armed’ conversation of you must be leaving which I rebuffed for now saying well I may not get references which satisfy having a unconditional offer, I’m going nowhere in refusing to give notice yet.

I’m just wondering if things can get really bad, my 1 to 1 that was due has been cancelled as if avoiding me more is the way to go. The reference from current employer has had to go to HR I just think not giving into their demands wholly means I get to at least control the reference situation. My family are of the opinion that I just give up current job as soon as with the correct notice and that I will manage through but really the thing bothering me is I leave and HR even more so don’t release a reference. Also I was mindful the company were on about deductions this month from my wage as they messed up their sickness policies when I was first off sick so I didn’t really want to have that fight on the outside either, I actually felt inclined to help the manager should it be their fault but after yesterday’s conversation I’m still in shock how’s it all been handled but I shouldn’t be surprised as they got a whole new team in just before I returned.

I'm utterly struggling to understand this, so I'm guessing a bit. It's generally not a good idea to hand in your resignation until you have a firm offer. That said, a firm offer isn't really worth much anyway, since when starting a new job you've next to no rights or protection.

You cannot be forced to resign. That didn't mean they must give you a reference at all ( unless in one of the industries where that is a legal requirement), and it doesn't mean that they couldn't dismiss you as long as they can do so fairly in law. I'm not sure what demands your aren't giving in to, or why you can't simply tell them that you've been offered another job. It's generally considered polite to tell someone that an offer has been made and that a reference request will be arriving. Why is it a secret?

I feel like you have started halfway through the story?

It’s not a half story. Before I could have any time with my ignoring Manager (do bear in mind I am working remotely due a spinal injury and I don’t the luxury of talking face 2 face) he received a reference request and has rather jumped the gun massively.

I understand fully what a non-conditional offer means at THIS stage. I just would like to hear how other people have dealt professionally with the situation when clearly being forced to leave who aren’t the best of friends with manager just because it suits when a reference request lands.

It’s fine I understand no one has ever been in this position and I’ll make my own way through come whatever. I understand everyone else have lived in dream land and only ever had references taken on last day.

What has actually happened? And what is it you are asking?

It’s really hard to understand the scenario you are describing.

if you are saying you are worried your employer isn’t going to give a reference because they don’t like you then go to HR.
most companies will only provide a factual reference nowadays anyway.

If you’re worried they are going to sack you then they can’t if you’ve been there more than 2 years unless they have gone through a termination process with good reason.

Maybe put a post with bullet points

OP it’s a bit hard to understand what you’re actually asking. How can you be forced to resign? Surely you get an offer, accept, resign, they take up references and then you work your notice?

Have you been asked to resign?

Nobody is forcing you to leave. Managers aren't friends, never mind best friends. You knew a reference request was being made and didn't tell them - that's impolite, and normally you ask for permission to name someone as a referee.

But having no manners on your part is hardly surprising because your attack on people trying to help you is disgusting. If you speak to your manager in the same way you have spoken to people here, then it's hardly surprising they don't wish to meet with you.

You are the one living in a dream world if you think your attitude is remotely professional or acceptable.

do bear in mind I am working remotely due a spinal injury and I don’t the luxury of talking face 2 face

Respectfully, we couldn't bear that in mind because you didn't mention it. You left out any useful context, which is why people don't understand what you are asking.

So you think you may be pushed out of your organisation as they've received a reference request? Did you ask your manager if you could put their name down as a referee?

I'd suggest you don't leave until you have a contract singed and a start date confirmed. Do you need DBS or anything? The NHS are notoriously slow at the recruitment process.

I think...

OP's manager has received a request for a reference from the NHS.

OP has not yet received a firm offer letter from the NHS.

OP's manager is now being a dick about it and may refuse to provide a reference or it may even result in her being sacked.

OP is asking whether the NHS have jumped the gun on this, given the potential consequences for her.

Other info appears to be extraneous.

OP - I'm sure it's not deliberately as you are probably really stressed, but you are being incredibly passive aggressive and confrontational right now and it's not necessary imo. Your OP was a little hard to understand, and most people do tell a Referree that they will be putting them down before they do so. That doesn't mean they want you to resign, just wanted to know what was going on and if that means you are leaving. I've never been in a job where that wouldn't be a very normal conversation and not have any aggressive undertones at all but I appreciate maybe the relationships you made at this job may not be good ones. Either way noone can force you to resign early legally I think.

I work within the NHS myself and have applied for numerous jobs, usually there is a section on the application that asks if you want your references contacted before or after the job has been offered.
Was this not an option on your application, as this seems a pretty standard tick box option on most??
They cannot give a bad reference, however I think they can decline, if that's the case you may need to provide another reference for them.

Your original post wasn't particularly clear and other posters were just trying to find out what you meant.
Maybe Mumsnet isn't the place for you if you cannot take criticism?

Also if you leave now and the accept the job, some NHS trusts see this is a career break and you lose your years of service/go back to start of your band/increment incline.

They cannot give a bad reference, however I think they can decline,

Of course they can give a bad reference, provided that is truthful. It is a myth that employers can't give bad references. And as I said previously, unless it is certain industries, nobody has to provide a reference,

Do you already work for the NHS and applied for a different job within it or do you currently work somewhere else?

@Quveas Ahh my mistake, I’ve always heard that an employer was unable to give a bad reference & assumed it to be true.
I’m aware they have to give factual information such as poor attendance / punctuality etc, but assumed that using it as an opportunity to ‘slate’ an employee was what was meant by a bad reference.
A lot of references within the NHS are usually tick boxes and specific character / duty based questions which seems to eliminate that potential anyway.

OP said "The reference from current employer has had to go to HR".

I don't think they currently work for the NHS, more that they have applied for a job in the NHS.

OP, am I reading this correctly from previous threads including this one...https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/work/4783562-i-have-been-stupid-current-employer-about-to-receive-a-reference-request

You have less than a years service, with a significant amount of time off sick. You knew that you'd been offered a job 12 days ago and so they would take up references, and didn't tell your manager this fact. And you criticised your potential employer for not being enthusiastic enough in offering you this post.

I think you really need to back off criticising others.

Your post is garbled and unclear OP, sorry. We don't understand what you are saying.

Don’t worry I am fully prepared to confront now both the Manager and HR and or payroll as to who had made mistakes along the way. Again I appreciate this isn’t the fuelled loving relations you have.

I’m sorry I bothered posting. I appreciate Mumsnet is to accept the manager who got leg over and we should bring getting smashed in the face as ok as Christmas do but months later I ask to be left out and I’m prepared to leave the company as much as silly little girls want to be a part of it. Fantasy over for Mumsnet over Britain’s worst delivery company. 9 out of 10 people (two very bright and could have been smart) getting rid of isn’t something to be proud of but I appreciate dumb ignore managers stand together united.

I'm really not clear at all about what you're asking but I wish you luck in your job search.

Most companies won't give a reference any more beyond confirming dates of employment.

This is very difficult to follow

If I have understood it correctly you have been in a job less than 12 months, had quite a bit of time off sick (relative to your work history) and now you have been offered a new job depended on references and you are scared your current manager is going to sack you because references have been requested?

I think your status as a person with a disability is relevant here but only if you can prove that the same situation hasn't happened to people without disabilities? But even so I'm not sure if you can claim for unfair dismissal if you are planning on leaving?

Have you tried phoning acas for advice?

normally you ask for permission to name someone as a referee

yes and the order in which you do it is important.
normally the standard and acceptable approach is to put on your CV / application form "references available on request".

this obviates the need to include a manager's name, keeps the pace and control with the candidate, who will await their offer of employment and only then release details about their references.

once they've had their offer letter, which is a reasonable reassurance that their new employer wants them to start working for them, only at that stage should they start the conversation with their manager, and seek their clearance for a reference.

The current employer trying to force the OP to resign is shabby. I don't understand a lot of what has been written, it's a muddled picture, but the best thing now is get references underway, formally resign so the notice period clock starts ticking and get the hell outa there! If the current employer refuses to give a reference, try to get one from somewhere else. If the new employer wants you enough they'll try to support that, some former employers do try to play a nasty game just to be awkward and make life difficult.

I had this exact situation when joining the NHS. NHS HR put out a request to my current employer at exactly the same time as making an offer to me. I was on leave and had no chance to inform my manager of the reference request. The first I knew was a livid email from my then boss.

It ended ok as I apologised to the boss and explained the situation. I also confirmed my resignation and he did provide a reference.

I put in a complaint to the NHS HR team as did the lovely hiring manager. The HR person had overlooked both mine and the hiring managers instruction not to approach my current boss until I'd had a chance to speak with him (I had ticked on the application not to approach him until specific permission was given)

m sorry this happened OP. Hope you can work through this.