Humiliated in meeting

[Hammili]

I don’t want this to be too outing. Essentially boss is a Jekyll and Hyde character, one minute overly friendly and enthusiastic the next minute he can be nasty, overbearing and demanding

Meeting yesterday with 4 people. He floated an idea (by floated I mean demanded it happens). I spoke up as to the barriers to stop this from happening (it’s the area I manage). He was incredibly rude, told me to stop talking, make it happen, I’m not interested in the issues and that I was being confrontational.

At that point I shut up and he said (very sarcastically) “so do you think you can make this happen?” - to which I had to reply yes

Moved on to another point of the meeting and he was talking , stopped and demanded I look at him and maintain eye contact with him the whole time he is talking. Told me I was impolite and “your eye contact is all over the place”, look at me when I’m talking to you. “There that’s better”.

it was humiliating, embarrassing, I felt like a little child.

my line manager was in the meeting and walked out with me at the end, she could see I was upset and agreed his behaviour was appalling. I went home to work for the day.

would HR do anything about this? Or is it fair enough to demand extended eye contact from someone

OP if you’re still reading this, possibly don’t do what my friend did but it still means he is a legend decades on….

My friend hated his job which involved knocking on doors/ringing trying to sell policies to people. His boss was annoyed that my friends sales targets were slipping. At a nationwide meeting in a big auditorium, the boss berated my friend and told him why and how he could be selling more. The boss then said he would do a role play about how my friend should sell and ordered him on stage to demonstrate.

My friend came up on stage and stood there whilst this hulk of a boss positioned himself opposite and pretended to knock on the imaginary door in front of my friend.
My friend pretended to open the door to him and the conversation went:

Boss: ‘good morning I am…..’
friend: ‘fck off’
boss: ‘what?!!’
friend (louder): ‘I told you to fck off. I’m on nights and you’ve woken me up’ (pretends to slam door in his face’
Boss (after picking his jaw off the floor):’We’re going to break now and I want to see you in the office on Monday’. storms off stage.
Friend: (small bow to audience) goes and sits back down in the deathly quiet auditorium.

This was a real exchange my friend had had with a potential client. The boss didn’t really have a leg to stand on as it proved my friend’s point.

However, crucially my friend had just accepted another position from a company who’d head hunted him, so when he went to the Monday meeting let his (ex) boss rant then calmly asked him ‘have you finished?’ and handed his notice letter in.

Legend.

@Hammili You have seen the true standards that the organisation finds acceptable. I suspect that you will never be happy there - find yourself another job and vote with your feet.

Just wanted to say that your boss is a twat. It boils my piss that people like this get to behave like this with very few repercussions.

Do what the HR people say.

HR people - have you ever had the pleasure of getting rid of turds like this? If so what evidence did you need to gather?

@Tinysoxxx - genius. The silence in the auditorium must have been deafening! 😆😆

@Mark19735 ha! I bet you’re a real wuss at work in real life. You don’t half talk some nonsense on here.

Oh great. Another anti-union Tory. You don't know the first thing about what I do IRL.

Unlike most of the posters here, I have first hand experience of what it takes to win a discrimination case at an Employment Tribunal - it's not just assembling a tonne of irrefutable evidence; you need courage and staying power and fortitude. You go up against the person who wronged you, the HR department, and what feels like the entire company. Half your colleagues who you thought were your friends, who said they support you in private, end up writing statements that are used by the respondent's lawyers to undermine you. It's tough ... really tough, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'll tell you what it doesn't require though ... six pages of validation and sympathy garnered from poorly-informed strangers on an anonymous internet forum. That's not worth shit. And neither is the opinion of someone who calls a person they know nothing about a wuss. Pathetic.

God I feel for you. You come across as politically correct and reality clueless. If youve something else going for you, then post it, cmon, lets have it,

Fragrant? Who knows.
Foolish? 100%
Pissed? Probably.

Jog on ...

@Tinysoxxx - legend indeed.

Love it when a plan comes together 😆

What a vile man!! Definitely speak to HR as you have witnesses

Only if you can prove it- which can be difficult if you don't get help/support and advice. And only if you pursue it, which a lot of people don't.

And it also depends on the company- some will choose to protect staff they view as their high performers, etc.

Some HR teams will deal with this really well, I'm sure, but some will absolutely just protect the company and minimise it to the OP.

Sorry @op it sounds awful. Totally unacceptable and you need to assert yourself.
Contact HR and at least have it documented, ask your line manager what she is going to do too, and finally practice saying 'I won't be spoken to in that way' so that you are instant in your rebuttal for any future occasions

I agree that it is a good response, but maybe "Gary" wasn't open to hearing it.

And why is it rude to look down while taking notes?

Unlike most of the posters here, I have first hand experience of what it takes to win a discrimination case at an Employment Tribunal - it's not just assembling a tonne of irrefutable evidence; you need courage and staying power and fortitude. You go up against the person who wronged you, the HR department, and what feels like the entire company. Half your colleagues who you thought were your friends, who said they support you in private, end up writing statements that are used by the respondent's lawyers to undermine you. It's tough ... really tough, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone

I don't disagree with any of this. I would have liked to take my bullying boss to tribunal but (a) she was very clever and I couldn't be sure I'd win and (b) it would have kept the whole painful process going for far too long. Sometimes it is better to move on, even if you feel like they are getting away with it.

However, raising a grievance is a few steps away from an ET. A complaint to HR is a few steps away from a grievance.

You are not wrong, but maybe it can't be solved. Or not in the way he wants, anyway. Or in a way that he will find acceptable.

And the point is, his approach to the issue was unacceptable, and the OP should not have to put up with it.

Not for the first time, I am amazed at the compliance of some people on MN. People really do like to put up with crap - whether from a boss or a retailer or a holiday cottage owner - whoever.

This really struck a chord except it’s my manager. I’ve decided to hand in notice and not go down the grievance route. I’m feeling battered and need to protect my mental health. I’m going to sign on with a temp agency whilst I look for something else. The money will be less but I’ll manage. One of the posts I thought was interesting about micro management. That’s what is happening to me. Tells me what to do, doesn’t listen when I try and clarify, just tells me to do it, then rants at me when it doesn’t work out. Hope things work out ok for you. Just keep telling yourself, I’m better than this 💐

If you know, it is likely to get shut down by finance, it might be easier just to go along with what he says, and do your bit, knowing that actually it will just bite the dust at the next stage.
He sounds like the kind of person who can't take any kind of criticism, he will see it as insubordination, in public. I wonder if he is more approachable on a one-to-one and posing issues you can foresee as "I just want to ask your advice, view, clarification on this… " but then not pushing it and just letting him think it over, and him to realise the issue in his own time...

He is the manager, so presumably if it all goes tits up it ultimately ends up on him, and if finance say no way, then that falls on them?

But at this stage you won't want to be in a room one-to-one with him, I am sure. I'm just thinking about future strategies for down the line if you decide not to leave and try to stick it out.

I have worked for this exact character.

IME the HR team do absolutely nothing - apart from leave themselves due to the toxic work culture.

It won't get any better. Look for another job.

I wonder how many of the people posting on this thread are care workers, or cleaners, or work in retail, or hospitality? Anyone working in those settings who reacts to a dressing down for being rude and dismissive to their boss by complaining to HR doesn't last long

I think you're out of touch, @Mark19735. There is such a serious shortage of staff in all those areas that they don't have to put up with rude and inconsiderate bosses, because they can walk into another job with the greatest of ease. If a manager is constantly attracting complaints and has a high staff turnover, it's much more likely to be the manager who gets the sack.

I wonder how many of the people posting on this thread are care workers, or cleaners, or work in retail, or hospitality?

You mean all the areas where there are absolutely massive staff shortages since Brexit? I would imagine that management has had to significantly buck up it's ideas on acceptable behaviour, it's not their market any longer.

I wonder how many of the people posting on this thread are care workers, or cleaners, or work in retail, or hospitality? Anyone working in those settings who reacts to a dressing down for being rude and dismissive to their boss by complaining to HR doesn't last long

well it doesn't matter, they just move onto the next job. if you are in a shortage area, you don't have to put up with nonsense

wonder how many of the people posting on this thread are care workers, or cleaners, or work in retail, or hospitality? Anyone working in those settings who reacts to a dressing down for being rude and dismissive to their boss by complaining to HR doesn't last long

Do people working in those fields deserve to be spoken to with less respect that that afforded to other people in different careers?

Demanding eye contact is inappropriate. Many people canon not cope with that. What if you were undiagnosed autistic?
What if you were from a culture where direct eye contact is seen as threatening or sexual?
Besides plenty of people who are nt/ not from such a culture are not comfortable with prolonged eye contact you don't need a reason.

He did not treat or speak to you as an equal. I would copmlain.