Humiliated in meeting

[Hammili]

I don’t want this to be too outing. Essentially boss is a Jekyll and Hyde character, one minute overly friendly and enthusiastic the next minute he can be nasty, overbearing and demanding

Meeting yesterday with 4 people. He floated an idea (by floated I mean demanded it happens). I spoke up as to the barriers to stop this from happening (it’s the area I manage). He was incredibly rude, told me to stop talking, make it happen, I’m not interested in the issues and that I was being confrontational.

At that point I shut up and he said (very sarcastically) “so do you think you can make this happen?” - to which I had to reply yes

Moved on to another point of the meeting and he was talking , stopped and demanded I look at him and maintain eye contact with him the whole time he is talking. Told me I was impolite and “your eye contact is all over the place”, look at me when I’m talking to you. “There that’s better”.

it was humiliating, embarrassing, I felt like a little child.

my line manager was in the meeting and walked out with me at the end, she could see I was upset and agreed his behaviour was appalling. I went home to work for the day.

would HR do anything about this? Or is it fair enough to demand extended eye contact from someone

Agreed. The fact that he felt comfortable doing this in a meeting, and that your line manager was happy to let it continue, tells you everything you need to know.

Take the next week off sick and look for a new job.

Don't engage with crazy. People like this won't be receptive to logic and/or grievances. Just leave. They know what happened.

I should have clarified, his proposal isn’t feasible. It’s old ground which we have gone over a number of times. Finance have and will again shut it down before it even gets off the ground. His response was as above “I’m not interested, just get it done”

My LM had already had her head bitten off by him in the same meeting.

4th person in the meeting wasn’t/isn’t in a position to say anything and not sure they would back me either

He’s a bully.

raise it in confidence with your manager and HR but don’t expect them to do anything - and if they do raise it with him it will only make it worse.

they won’t change his behaviour and he was take it out on you.

id look for something else to be honest, you don’t deserve to be bullied in work.

I left a job with a manager like this last year. She once banged her hand on my desk several times to rattle home a point to me. Id needed to ring 2 people, the order I made the calls did not matter in any way shape or form. She berated me because of who is spoken to first. I’d follow feedback to the letter and then a week later the same tasks would be met with completely the opposite feedback and criticism. It really wore me down but I left without kicking up a fuss although I regret this now.

Im now in a job with a bloody brilliant line manager and fantastic CEO- both of whom wouldn’t dream of speaking how you were spoken to.

The fact your own manager was there and said nothing, tells you that the person who spoke to you is frightening everyone and has probably done it before

possibly. It can also say the op became very argumentative and refused to take direction. The fact he said she was being confrontational. And eventually to stop talking tells me there is more than a slim chance that an onlooker might have a slightly different view of how this escalated .

it doesn’t mean he didn’t step out of line but he is allowed to tell her if she’s being confrontational , he is also permitted to tell her to make it happen , the uninterested in the issues and stop talking breaches professionalism.

the then sitting taking notes and refusing to acknowledge he was talking to her wasn’t good, she should habe stepped out.

I believe totally he stepped out of line, but I am not 100 percent sure the op was presenting a reasoned discussion on the steps required.

👏Remind me not to work with Marks, Tom, dicks and harrys
typical male aggressive management style and lacking emotional intelligence.

Yes! Write a grievance letter. Send to HR directly. They will interview you and others that were in the meeting. If he's done anything else unprofessional include that in your letter or allude to there being other examples which you'll discuss in person.
Go get him! It builds a case at worst or he'll walk out at best (thats what my bullying manager did - i lit the touch paper and so much came out from others once the grievance ball started rolling)
Good luck! x

So the line manager is female as well? And also cowed by his bullying?

Maybe you should put in a joint grievance!

I am an HR leader and have lost count of the number of bullies who I have terminated. Be careful not to insult and diss and entire profession.

Well he is being unrealistic and it’s only a matter of time before he can’t do his role anymore. Why is he flogging a dead horse? What is his motive?

He is not indispensable unless he has a skill set that no-one else can do (eg. Surgery speciality).

Hey I'm the nice line manager, the staff have the utmost respect for me and like me, confide in me, and I support my staff through everything and anything.

They can ask me any questions grab me for a chat over coffee about anything. I have a positive and proactive team, but more importantly a team that love coming to work and enjoy their time in work.

We hit 100% on all our targets because we've created an atmosphere that allows it to happen, zero pressure or judgement atmosphere. It allows people to grow and flourish, and even if mistakes happen we approach it as a learning example and a move on from it . Nobody is perfect, how can we stop it happening again sorta thing. I say to the staff often "you cant do anything wrong, you can do it right or you can do it again." We're not in a line of work where lifes are on the line like Dr's or social workers so it's easier.

Mainly I think because I've sorta checked out of it on any real giving a shit scale 🤣 so I'm like let's just be happy for the next 8hours and get on with what we have to do but find joy in it and enjoy eachothers company and laughter.

Other teams have overbearing, wanting to prove themselves managers, bossing the staff about, micro managing them. Umpteen complaints have gone to HR but these people stay, keep getting promoted and create a toxic work environment. Me and my team try our best to just avoid the other departments unless we really really need to and even then I say to them "we've got this together, we can do it".

I feel for the other staff, which is why when I notice it going on infront of my face I step in and say "pardon"....

By argumentative and refuse to take direction do you mean "was a woman daring to have a different opinion to him"

it sounds like he's been told again and again that what he wanted can't happen but was trying to bully the OP into doing it.

And it's perfectly reasonable to take notes in a work meeting, you do not need to maintain constant eye contact and that is also a way to bully people.

Write it all down op he sounds like a complete cock

I’m sorry, OP, that sounds like bullying, such a bruising encounter.

The keeping eye contact is utterly bizarre and I see it as abusive behaviour. Intimidation. He had zero people skills.

I also don’t agree about the meeting being about being ordered. If that’s the case, what was the point of the meeting? He could have fired an email instead. What an arse.

If your manager is a prick, and your line manager is too chicken to fight your corner then leave, you don't stand a chance. Go and work for someone who deserves you.

I am an HR leader and have lost count of the number of bullies who I have terminated. Be careful not to insult and diss and entire profession

I don't know if things have changed, but I am afraid I have to concur with the opinion that bullying usually pays - the victims leave the organisation either voluntarily or not, and the bullies get to stay. I've witnessed people being bullied and their bullies have got away with it despite HR being all too aware - at least for a long time - and I've been bullied myself and my bully is still in her job a decade later - all I can say is I got a decent pay off and ended up in a much happier job. But it's astonishing she is still in her job (I wasn't her only victim).

However, that doesn't mean that you don't at least try a grievance as not all HR people are so useless.

If you are a hyper-sensitive and needy employee prone to insubordination

I always have to laugh when I see the word insubordination used about adults in the workplace. Employees are not 5 year old, they are not in school!

@Mark19735 no mate. Except possibly under live fire in a combat zone. Not in an office.

HR are not there for the workers so don’t bother going to them.

If you don’t stand up for yourself then you need to leave pronto.

There’s a brilliant book for dealing with difficult people, here’s a link:

www.amazon.co.uk/Be-Bulletproof-achieve-success-tough/dp/009193981X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2DDRXXXIPUOHQ&keywords=be+bulletproof+how+to+achieve+success&qid=1679147675&sprefix=be+bulletproof+how+to+achieve+success%2Caps%2C136&sr=8-1

Reading this book transformed my relationship with a very difficult manager, who was exactly the individual you describe. I did come to realise that whilst I could manage difficult situations, it was hard work, and ultimately decided to leave as it was difficult to perform well in such a toxic environment.

We left on good terms though, which was something of a miracle and largely due to the strategies in the book. I didn’t think people like this existed in the workplace but they definitely do ! Remember, resilience is the greatest contributor to success…..

Sorry but I think the no eye contact behaviour sounds like it was interpreted as sulking and rudeness. It sounds like you weren't mature enough to simply say, "I told you that in my opinion this isn't workable, Gary, but I'll have a try".

Here's how I view reporting to HR, filing complaints, all that: it's basically adult whining. It lacks maturity. Instead, woman up, do the thing asked of you and if it can't be done write a professional email bullet-pointing why, with a suggestion on how the barrier could be resolved.

To be honest I would leave. I know it's not something that can happen overnight, but this sort of thing destroys your self esteem.
Years ago I worked for someone who was an utter bitch. She had gone through 24 staff in three years, one of whom only lasted two hours before storming out telling her to stick her fucking job! I lasted just under two years, probably at first because one of my husband's best friends was her former boss who still had a lot of clout in her sector (also public sector).
Problems started when she wanted me to cover for another member of staff by upping my hours, but not paying, just time off in lieu. I couldn't do this because if I worked I had to pay childcare, and after that my card was marked. I ended up walking out and taking her to tribunal for disability discrimination (I won, work settled two days before the tribunal hearing). Nothing happened to her. I was redeployed, but she was not even disciplined. She was eventually let go for gross misconduct for breach of copyright and was bloody lucky not to be prosecuted.
People like that never ever change. They also tend to be very devious in their bullying. Do whatever you can to not work with them again and certainly never be alone with them.

I cannot believe your LM did not intervene. What level of seniority - salary band is this man? If anyone spoke like that to anyone in a meeting, I would intervene. Are you in a union?

Hi OP,

I'm an HR specialist. If you came to me with this complaint, here's what I would suggest:

1. If I knew that this individual had behaved inappropriately in other instances (even if just hearsay), I would investigate them formally. Often, we suspect someone is an arse but we don't have sufficient evidence to pursue them.

2. If, after a full discussion with you, I felt that this might be more of an issue of style, rather than bullying and/or there were no or very limited instances of inappropriate behaviour, I would suggest you (or me) speak to your line manager and ask them to speak to this individual's line manager about what they witnessed and why it was inappropriate. I would want to know that the individual's line manager had then spoken to them about the incident, that it was going to be taken into account during their appraisal (and logged on their form) and that it was made clear that their behaviour was below the company's high expectations for their senior staff. I would want that discussion documented and sent to HR so that it could be used as evidence at a later date if needed. I would follow up with you to ensure all was well and I would expect your line manager to do that too.

So, my advice would be to go to HR. You might want to suggest one of the above options to them as a means of resolution.

Good luck!