To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@NeedAHoliday2021

Do you realise all doctors already have to have Hep A? Midwives have to have their childhood immunisations done as an adult if they missed them. There’s precedent for this and, well… it’s a pandemic.

What's that got to do with medical secretaries though?

@Derbee

Get another job. But hopefully it won’t be too long before everyone in every job needs to be vaccinated, and it catches up with you at some point

Why???

And people say it's not removing a choice!

I would strongly disagree if my employer made this vaccine mandatory. My first question would be why this one and not others? Flu cripples the nhs every year yet has a low uptake within the nhs.

I would very much doubt my employer even has the right currently to ask my vaccine status never mind tell me whether I should or shouldn't have it.

Given they say that the vaccine starts to wane after 6 months (one of the reasons why vulnerable groups are getting a booster) why is is necessary to say that you've had the vaccine given it will need to be renewed to keep up the protection?

@chloworm

What other vaccines are mandatory for NHS medical secretaries? Flu? MMR? These diseases have the potential to do much harm, so I don't get why the focus is solely on Covid. I'm vaccinated but it's unfair to force this on existing staff. Why can't they continue to take regular tests e.g. twice per week?

MMR and BCG in all the trusts within a 40 mile radius of here (with very small exceptions in specific and verifiable circumstances as given in my last post). I've worked for them.

Yep. We are already struggling to recruit.

Only because the NHS job application process is a complete ball ache.

It can take hours to apply for an £18,000 a year job.

@girlmom21

Yep. We are already struggling to recruit.

Only because the NHS job application process is a complete ball ache.

It can take hours to apply for an £18,000 a year job.

Yes that is also true!

@Teaandcakeordeath83

I'm a fully vaxxed NHS worker and believe that ALL vaccines should be mandatory unless there is a medical reason you can't have one. That said- until they make all childhood vaccinations mandatory, like in some states/ countries where you have to prove your child is vaccinated to access public schooling, I don't think they should be doing the same with covid vaccines. As an adult I'd rather work with someone unvaccinated against covid than have my kids around unvaccinated kids. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think there may be a lot of push back from staff and managers on this op. The care industry is potentially losing up to 60000 staff in the next fortnight. The NHS and the care industry is already chronically understaffed. I don't know where the govt thinks we are going to get the staff to replace all those who choose to remain unvaccinated. The cynic in me says they're trying to bring it to its knees faster...

I agree. Can we really afford to lose care workers and NHS staff at this time? I would rather have care from an unvaccinated worker who regularly tests for covid than have no care at all.

I've had both jabs. However, I really do not want the booster because I'm still having issues from the jab side effects - I've not bothered the GP with them because no one is going to listen and they're not something that anyone is going to resolve - but they're enough to be something I wish I wasn't dealing with on a daily basis.

On a healthcare course - had all the pre-course jabs (we'll ignore the Hep B that was a year and a half late because Covid hit) and blood tests and everything else. Had the Covid jabs when that came along - but can I fuck get any clarity about if the booster is going to be mandatory for healthcare... if it is - I'm not going to be able to practice, and depending on the timescale of when that happens, and how it maps up to placements, I may not even be able to make up enough clinical hours to even qualify.

If you thought not being able to find truckers and petrol tanker drivers fucked the country up... wait till they purge the NHS of staff too.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup thanks. How about annual flu boosters?

My friend was a medical secretary, she left her job recently due to thinking this was coming and got a job in the private sector for more money. Her job share has also left due to it and the shitty pay and conditions.
I’d just leave, there’s plenty of jobs out there and probably better paid.
It makes no sense for non patient facing roles.

There is a precedent. No one can work for the NHS without having had Hep B for starters.

They won't sign because any letter of the kind would be legally ridiculous.

It's an employment contract offered on terms. If you don't like the terms, you are out of luck.

I’m happy for you to leave the NHS. I presume if you’re a medical sec your come into contact with other people, who
May come into contact with clinical staff, who may pass the virus onto a vulnerable patient.
I have no words… please get another job

I suggest you leave mumsnet asap, this is totally not the platform for such threads, I'm sure you've gathered that by now looking at the majority of the comments to your question.
There are much more useful platforms out there you just need to find them .
Other than that search for the full interview done today with Dr Aseem Malhotra (double jabbed British cardiologist) who gives his view on this very topic. This may help:
twitter.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1456574588939292680?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

@Scoutingformygirls

There is a precedent. No one can work for the NHS without having had Hep B for starters.

You can as a med sec

You know Doctors and theatre staff have to have certain vaccines to be able to have their jobs? There is no exemptions. Do you want that to change?

Surely the difference is that the op already has her job.
Other vaccines that are required( for other roles) are made known before applying.
ie : giving a choice.
This situation has removed all choice, as if she doesn’t comply she has no job!

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the patients dying in the ITU where I work is unvaccinated. Age range is typically 30-60 in this wave. The treatment is horrific. Those who survive are being left with terrible disability, we’ve had to deliver pregnant women who then die or are left with post partum and post ITU psychosis. I just don’t understand how people can think the risks of vaccination are higher than this

I can’t find those figures in this weeks gov surveillance report.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1027511/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-42.pdf

You seem very anxious about this, can you go to your doctor and get a exemption?

@Scoutingformygirls - all the other jabs are there to protect patients unlike the C-jab, which doesn't even limit transmission.... totally different situation. I suggest you also look for the interview I mention above

@DGFB

I’m happy for you to leave the NHS. I presume if you’re a medical sec your come into contact with other people, who May come into contact with clinical staff, who may pass the virus onto a vulnerable patient. I have no words… please get another job

This is stupid really. You could say that about any jobs. You're going to come into contact with unvaccinated people whether you like it or not. You're probably more at risk from the checkout operative or the hairdresser not catching it third hand from a medical secretary in a controlled environment where everyone clinical is wearing ppe

Think about chatting to the clinicians in your hospital vaccine hub or occ. health. Your reasons for your decision are not based on the evidence so it may help to understand this more to make a more reasoned decision.

I’m afraid that in certain jobs we have responsibilities as well as rights. It is, of course, always our right to leave a job if we don’t like the responsibilities. That may be difficult for you personally but the responsibilities of working in a healthcare environment are important to the people who deserve as safe an environment as possible when they are at their most vilumerable.

I think it is wrong OP FWIW. I think it is a slippery slope TBH. No one should be forced to disclose medical information including vaccine status or be forced into a medical treatment / intervention

Most vulnerable. I don’t even know what that autocorrect is.

@KeepOnNCing

You know Doctors and theatre staff have to have certain vaccines to be able to have their jobs? There is no exemptions. Do you want that to change?

Again, what relevance does this have to a medical secretary?

A pilot has to have good eyesight but that doesn't mean the check in desk person does.

@CoffeeWithCheese

I've had both jabs. However, I really do not want the booster because I'm still having issues from the jab side effects - I've not bothered the GP with them because no one is going to listen and they're not something that anyone is going to resolve - but they're enough to be something I wish I wasn't dealing with on a daily basis.

On a healthcare course - had all the pre-course jabs (we'll ignore the Hep B that was a year and a half late because Covid hit) and blood tests and everything else. Had the Covid jabs when that came along - but can I fuck get any clarity about if the booster is going to be mandatory for healthcare... if it is - I'm not going to be able to practice, and depending on the timescale of when that happens, and how it maps up to placements, I may not even be able to make up enough clinical hours to even qualify.

If you thought not being able to find truckers and petrol tanker drivers fucked the country up... wait till they purge the NHS of staff too.

Come to Wales and practice over here. We need the staff and drakeford has said there will be no compulsory vaccines for nhs staff.