To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

It’s going to be interesting how this plays out for non medical NHS staff, especially in admin roles. There are so many of these jobs around at the moment and it’s not like the NHS pay terribly well so are hardly going to attract applicants with monetary reward. I got made redundant last week so have been looking at PA/admin jobs, anything in NHS was a good £5k below comparable roles. Add in compulsory vaccinations and they really aren’t an attractive employer. I’m doubly vaccinated by the way.

@Coyoacan

Apparently us vaccinated are just as contagious as the unvaccinated, though hopefully not as liable to get really sick, so how does my being vaccinated help society?

Because 84% of those being hospitalised with Covid are unvaccinated and are putting undue pressure on the NHS…

It's an absolute disgrace. No one should be made to do this and risk losing their job if they don't. I can't believe so many people are willing to give up their rights.

@Mrbob @RacketeerRalph

I’ve been talking to a student midwife today who may not be able to continue the course because she can’t have HepB jab.

There are definitely areas which require you to have certain vaccinations in order to work there

@Coyoacan

Apparently us vaccinated are just as contagious as the unvaccinated, though hopefully not as liable to get really sick, so how does my being vaccinated help society?

That is not true. Vaccinated people have a similar peak viral load to unvaccinated people. However, the duration of the spike in viral load is much shorter so vaccinated people are, overall, much less contagious.

[quote ineedsun]**@Mrbob* @RacketeerRalph*

I’ve been talking to a student midwife today who may not be able to continue the course because she can’t have HepB jab.

There are definitely areas which require you to have certain vaccinations in order to work there[/quote]
None for medical secretaries though. What you have to do to be x other professional is irrelevant isn't it

@BBCONEANDTWO

Regarding nurses leaving - where are they going to go? If they work in a nursing home they will probably have the same problem but with really bad working conditions.

Wales!!

Drakeford said no mandatory vaccines in NHS Wales just last week, so bring it on I say, we could do with the extra staff.

Look at history and look up the word dictatorship

It may also be worth looking up the many western democracies who require quite a wide range of vaccines for public education, childcare and some categories of employment and have done for some time.

@Iheartmysmart

It’s going to be interesting how this plays out for non medical NHS staff, especially in admin roles. There are so many of these jobs around at the moment and it’s not like the NHS pay terribly well so are hardly going to attract applicants with monetary reward. I got made redundant last week so have been looking at PA/admin jobs, anything in NHS was a good £5k below comparable roles. Add in compulsory vaccinations and they really aren’t an attractive employer. I’m doubly vaccinated by the way.

Yep. We are already struggling to recruit.

You're not being forced though, you have the option to leave & get another job. 🤷‍♀️

It's a healthcare setting, you're mixing with medical staff even if you don't see patients, so of course you should have the vaccine to continue working there as you pose a risk to others & as a hospital user, I'm glad they are bringing this in, especially for my friends who genuinely can't have it for medical reasons & are highly CEV

They've given you plenty of notice to get another job too

I am pro vaccine and I don’t think it should be a requirement for your job

I am massively about the proposal to bring this in next April, tbh. Why not do it now, ahead of what is allegedly going to be a terrible winter for the NHS and staff sickness. Why wait until the worst is probably over ? Because the Govt know there will be a shit show at the worst possible time, that is why.

I believe in personal choice and personal freedom, even if I don’t agree with your reasons

Sorry but I really can’t be arsed with people that say they shouldn’t be forced to have the vaccine but yet work in healthcare. What do you suggest we do then ? Please give me a answer on how the pandemic will end because silly me thought that if the majority were vaccinated then that would be that . I’ll be dammed if I’m locking down because people think they should have a choice. Yes your right but right now the vaccine is a step in the right direction , don’t get vaccinated then but then your putting yourself/ your colleagues and your family at risk but hey as long as you have a choice . It will stop you getting seriously ill op I don’t get with a family why you don’t think your not at risk unless you want to minimise the whole virus ? .

I'm a fully vaxxed NHS worker and believe that ALL vaccines should be mandatory unless there is a medical reason you can't have one. That said- until they make all childhood vaccinations mandatory, like in some states/ countries where you have to prove your child is vaccinated to access public schooling, I don't think they should be doing the same with covid vaccines. As an adult I'd rather work with someone unvaccinated against covid than have my kids around unvaccinated kids. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think there may be a lot of push back from staff and managers on this op. The care industry is potentially losing up to 60000 staff in the next fortnight. The NHS and the care industry is already chronically understaffed. I don't know where the govt thinks we are going to get the staff to replace all those who choose to remain unvaccinated. The cynic in me says they're trying to bring it to its knees faster...

@SarahBop

I will answer you questions below fully:

'But if you've had YOUR vaccine and you're confident it is helping to protect you, what concern is it if some staff members aren't vaccinated?
A: Because I believe it is everyones responsibility to be vaccinated to reduce transmission on those who are old or immune supressed.
B: Because the less transmission there is the less potential for variants and a continuation of this crisis.
C: Because I feel so sorry for younger people who have to bear brunt of repeated cycles of infection driven by posters like the OP who think only of themselves.
D: Because if you work in healthcare you have a moral obligation to give service users, many of whom are vulnerable, an environment thats as safe as possible.

"Bear in mind the vaccinated staff can, and will, still be carrying covid too ...and also they will ALL have been wearing adequate PPE, the risk to you is utterly minimal'

A: I can see you think that I think like you- about the risk to me-I dont, I think about the risk to others and the impact on others. I choose to get vaccinated for my community, not for me. I have exactly the same concerns people mention here, but Im not selfish so I put them to one side.

Hope this answers your question.

The medical field really doesn't need people who don't believe in science/think they know better in it.

It's a good decision that will protect people from the selfishness of others.

@Grenlei This.

If 84% of those hospitalised with Covid (and leaving aside whether that, liked 'died with Covid' is a reliable stat) how many of those 84% were unable to have the vaccine due to health conditions or advised against doing so for those reasons?

@JassyRadlett

I'm not prepared to be jabbed. I'm not against vaccines but this doesn't seem like a vaccine to me when you have to keep being jabbed.

Boosters for vaccines are not unusual, especially for adults whose immune systems are less responsive than babies’ and children’s.

What is your definition of a vaccine?

I’ll bet these people would all have a tetanus booster if they trod on a rusty nail.

@Sunflowers095

The medical field really doesn't need people who don't believe in science/think they know better in it.

It's a good decision that will protect people from the selfishness of others.

No it really does. I hope you don't complain next time your appointment letter doesn't get sent out quick enough, or you ring for your results and you can't speak to anyone, or you want to track down a consultant. Because that will be the reality very soon.

No one should be forced to have any vaccinations.
However I think certain jobs like those in hospitals and doctors surgeries should have a requirement that their staff be fully vaccinated. I’d be bloody fuming if I already had aggressive cancer and knew that every time I attended my doctors appointments I was putting myself at further risk of other diseases.
It’s simply not fair. You choose to be there but they don’t.

Are you required to have any other vaccinations to work there?

On a side note the vaccination reduces your chance of hospitalisation by about 95% so the vaccination is definitely a safer option than ‘taking your chances’ with covid.

What other vaccines are mandatory for NHS medical secretaries? Flu? MMR? These diseases have the potential to do much harm, so I don't get why the focus is solely on Covid. I'm vaccinated but it's unfair to force this on existing staff. Why can't they continue to take regular tests e.g. twice per week?

There’s no force here. You’re a secretary, presumably you can do that anywhere.

@chloworm

What other vaccines are mandatory for NHS medical secretaries? Flu? MMR? These diseases have the potential to do much harm, so I don't get why the focus is solely on Covid. I'm vaccinated but it's unfair to force this on existing staff. Why can't they continue to take regular tests e.g. twice per week?

None. We get offered flu but it's not mandatory.

We went into lockdown to protect the nhs and several people that I know lost their jobs. They would definitely have had the vaccine to keep their jobs. At least you have the choice.

Do you realise all doctors already have to have Hep A? Midwives have to have their childhood immunisations done as an adult if they missed them. There’s precedent for this and, well… it’s a pandemic.