To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

I personally feel it's against human rights.

For the record I work for the NHS, and I'm fully vaccinated. Also took part in a vaccine trial for covid.

@CherryBlossomAutumn

I had to have the Hepatitis B vaccine before I worked as a nurse many moons ago. It was to protect me but also patients. I could either get it, or find another job. Fair enough I think.

Ex, bog standard medical secretary here. just one with a better grasp of science and risk assessment

Didn't have to have Hep B as there wasn't high risk potential contact with bodily fluids, but the MMR and BCG were for everybody who couldn't show they had immunity AND only then if they had a diagnosed condition that meant a further vaccination of those particular vaccines was not advisable (on MTX at the time). No immunity, no job. No vaccination, no job.

Also couldn't start biologics until those tests were repeated along with chest x rays. So technically somebody refusing to be vaccinated would be denied that particular treatment, which would impact a life far more than needing to apply for an admin job somewhere else.

The UK's vaccination rate is not yet high enough for herd immunity. Mandatory vaccines for NHS workers will help. Even office workers like you will be coming into contact with vulnerable patients indirectly via medical staff. As an unvaccinated person there is a much higher chance of you spreading it than if you were vaccinated. They have given you plenty of notice so I think this is fair. What are your reasons for refusing the vaccine.? I do hope you haven't been listening to duff information from unqualified people on social media. It would be such a pity if you end up losing your job because of them.

Rosette were they not given meds in the 50's that caused people to be thaliamoid

@LMonkey well if you feel compelled to follow your convictions then do so and seek proper, professional, legal advice but you do need to accept that in the short term that could affect your employment status.

I don’t want to be rude, but banging on about it on the internet isn’t going to achieve anything. You’re already aware that your covid vaccine status has the potential to cause you issues around work so going in armed with armed only with information off the internet isn’t going to help you is it? Prepare yourself properly, have a source of legal advice lined up and be prepared to have to lose your job and have to fight to get reinstated/compensated.

If I was in your position I’d be seeking advice from organisations that vocally back your stance and seeing if they were prepared to help provide you with actual, real life support.

@Covetthee

All the risks you mentioned OP also come with the risk of actually getting the virus itself and think of potentially long term consequences of covid that people are suffering from

Also so boring people STILL going on about how it doesn’t reduce transmission etc… Yes again no one said it will 100% stop transmission or stop you actually getting it but it MIGHT just save your life if you do get it instead of potentially ending up in hospital on a ventilator.

I’d rather take my risk with the vaccine than covid itself

And I would genuinely rather take my risk with Covid. Each to their own I guess.

Oh and just FYI people saying they should get a medical exemption?
We already have mandatory vaccination where I am for anyone who works for the ambulance service, hospitals (including private), aged care etc. The chief medical officer is the only person who can grant exemption and the reasons are “severe allergy or anaphylaxis to a previous dose of the same vaccine or one of the ingredients”. People on chemo etc are completing their treatment in non patient facing roles and then will be vaccinated once it’s safe.

Yes some people have had complications. But given that my entire workforce is vaccinated and almost the entire population here and I know of very few life threatening case of vaccine adverse reaction in our large city (and yes I would know due to my work) and several deaths from covid despite us having zero covid for most of the last
18 months I know which I will go for. So if other people’s anecdotal “evidence” is being paraded, I will share mine

Just for context, in France everything is vaccine pass open since September. I was at an open air event last week with 20k other people followed by food tents with dinner and drinks. No masks as everyone was EU Covid passed and x 2 vaccinated. Nobody allowed in without it. It was so pleasant and normal. Everything here now requests Covid pass- restaurants, art galleries, shopping centres and all events.
All kids 12+ need it also. Cases dropped fivefold because the Govt grew a pair and stopped exactly this kind of conversation we are having on this thread. Lots of people left their jobs in healthcare because they would not get vaxxed, thats fine said Govt and its been fine since.
The vaccine reduces risk of transmission, hospitalisation and serious illness and stops it travelling in the community. If the IFR rate was like that of Ebola and you had the luxury of a vaccine you would be screaming to get the shot.
I look at the UK and despair, you guys are going to be economically ruined and your NHS destroyed because of posters like the OP thinking ONLY about herself.

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the patients dying in the ITU where I work is unvaccinated. Age range is typically 30-60 in this wave. The treatment is horrific. Those who survive are being left with terrible disability, we’ve had to deliver pregnant women who then die or are left with post partum and post ITU psychosis. I just don’t understand how people can think the risks of vaccination are higher than this.

@LMonkey

17:30Muchtoomuchtodo

@LMonkey, Can you tell us more about your reasons for not having the vaccine?

There are unarguably reasons as to why we should question any vaccine, especially this one. This is a vaccine which was rushed. There's no long term data for it. We have no idea what effect it will have on peoples bodies 10, 15, 20 years down the line. WE KNOW people have died from blood clots. I know 2 people myself. Fit , healthy, young people. WE KNOW it can cause myocarditis in younger people. It's also clear as bloody day THAT IT DOES NOT STOP TRANSMISSION. If people are happy to accept it, to protect THEMSELVES from extreme disease, then by all means have it. That's your choice.I dont want it.

Wow, I can see why you won’t have it, seven deaths in the uk due to clots and you were mates with two of them, and the two who were young fit and healthy. What’s th odds.

I’m afraid you need to find a new job, but I totally get your fear. If I’d known two of the seven who died and they were young fit and healthy I’d also be terrified.

@drpet49

* But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine.*

No one is forcing you to have the vaccine.

Im double vaxxed but dont agree with sacking people who dont want it! its a personal choice think people forgetting that.

Ive read your reasons. It’s very clear you don’t understand a single thing about the vaccine and it’s worrying that the NHS gave you a job in the first place. Thank god my taxes won’t be paying your wages from April next year.

@RacketeerRalph

Mrbob

Please read my subsequent posts. In my trust, there are NO mandatory vaccines. The decision is trust dependent. I'm an NHS manager, I do recruitment, it's literally my job to know!

Even for doctors? I couldn’t get into medical school without quite a number so I would be surprised

@Bettyboopawoop

MrBob with all due respect people have already had vaccine 1 vaccine 2 then a booster within the space of a short time, will it then be booster 2,3,4,5? Where is it going to end? The flu vaccine is once a year.

I see people saying this but my reaction is always so what? Like what does it matter if you have to have 2 a year? Loads of people take medications every single day, they all have potential side effects. It isn't poison they are injecting into you, it is a potentially life saving vaccine.

@LMonkey but its not just your risk you see. You work with people, in a healthcare setting so what about their risk?
They cant choose not to go to your consultant, they have to go and there you are acting as a convenient reservoir for infection because you think your personal rights trump those around you.

@Bettyboopawoop

Rosette were they not given meds in the 50's that caused people to be thaliamoid

If you mean the birth defects that were caused by taking Thalidomide (still a very useful drug in other circumstances), that was one of the driving forces behind the change in testing protocols and research. The ones that have led to huge numbers of new drugs, revolutionary treatments for conditions that would have been death sentences, swift withdrawal of ineffective drugs and those with a higher risk profile once in use and all the developments in medicine that have hugely increased life expectancy and quality of life for billions worldwide.

@Grabmygran

Ive read your reasons. It’s very clear you don’t understand a single thing about the vaccine and it’s worrying that the NHS gave you a job in the first place. Thank god my taxes won’t be paying your wages from April next year.

How nasty , no need

NHS staff were, and are, heroes. If there had been sufficient adequate PPE they wouldn't've had to be. But there wasn't and so they risked their lives, unvaccinated, to save patients. In return, there was some clapping and talk of gratitude.

I can see why they might not see any necessity to take the vaccine now and anyone abusing them for that should be ashamed. NHS staff have done their bit and then some.

I find it ironic that in most AIBU's the OPs problems have been caused by a prick.

In this case the OPs problems could be instantly solved by one.

@Onandoff

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the patients dying in the ITU where I work is unvaccinated. Age range is typically 30-60 in this wave. The treatment is horrific. Those who survive are being left with terrible disability, we’ve had to deliver pregnant women who then die or are left with post partum and post ITU psychosis. I just don’t understand how people can think the risks of vaccination are higher than this.

@onandoff Im so sorry you have to see this happening. Its awful. Vaccination should be mandatory, end of.

@LMonkey

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here? I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

I’m sure someone else will already have pointed this out but there are professions which require you to be vaccinated against certain things. Hep B and TB for health workers springs to mind

@LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for. I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

I do see it from another's POV.

We need to protect the vulnerable and we need to make the virus as ineffective as possible.

And I really don't want to be around people who don't see this.

(See also: polio, smallpox, measles, diphtheria etc)

Regarding nurses leaving - where are they going to go? If they work in a nursing home they will probably have the same problem but with really bad working conditions.

Anecdotal of course, but most of the people I know who have had Covid have had it in the last 3 months, since being vaccinated, they'd never had Covid previously. Many were quite unwell (one is still in hospital).

I don't know anyone unvaccinated who has had it recently, let alone badly enough to end up in hospital.

@BBCONEANDTWO

Regarding nurses leaving - where are they going to go? If they work in a nursing home they will probably have the same problem but with really bad working conditions.

Apparently none of them need the money. So can just quit. Vocation innit.