To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

Everyone has the freedom to choose not to be vaccinated and choices have consequences. They always do.

Basically this. It really isn't hard to comprehend.

To all those saying “just get vaccinated” I don’t think it’s as simple as that. If we accept employers mandating health interventions when those health interventions are still in a trial phase with no long term data it’s a dangerous precedent. For context I’m not vaxed and my DH is double jabbed, we both caught Covid from DC, both felt like mild flu and DH came out worse with chest infection etc. but both pretty much recovered now. Before catching it we were LFT regularly, hand washing etc. to limit the spread. Vaccination doesn’t stop you catching Covid or spreading it. It does stop hospitalisation in high risk individuals and in their case I’m all for it. It’s different from Hep B and other vaccines, already data says only lasts 5-6 months and then you need a booster. Will everyone need boosters every 6months for life now?

OP would it come under constructive dismissal? From Gov website; “Constructive dismissal is when you’re forced to leave your job against your will because of your employer’s conduct.

The reasons you leave your job must be serious, for example, they:

do not pay you or suddenly demote you for no reason
force you to accept unreasonable changes to how you work - for example, tell you to work night shifts when your contract is only for day work
let other employees harass or bully you
Your employer’s breach of contract may be one serious incident or a series of incidents that are serious when taken together.”

@SarahBop

Honestly I am saddened that people think this is okay/acceptable.

You honestly think someone should lose their rights to body autonomy? You think someone should lose their freedoms/human rights/a job they're good at and passionate about because they refuse to undergo a medical procedure? Really?

Bear in mind the government make millions of pounds in profit from selling this drug....do they really have peoples safety as a first priority??

@SarahBop but shes not losing her right to bodily integrity. She can hold onto that if she so wishes but not with her job. I had a hospital procedure today and I expect everyone there to be vaccinated- if not then they should not work in the health service.

The risk of complications from COVID is much higher than the risks from the vaccine. Including myocarditis.

As the mother of a CEV child who has a lot of time in hospitals I am all for knowing that all staff in there have been vaccinated to maximise the protection for themselves, their colleagues and the patients. We can’t do anything about the patients and visitors but we can ensure staff are fully protected.

@Fluffycloudland77

I’m in healthcare and Hep b, Hep are mandatory. We couldn’t start the course without a blood test to prove they’d taken.

It’s just another one to add to the list.

No it's not. It may have been compulsory for your course, it wasn't for mine and isn't in my trust. It's advised and refusal requires mandatory vaccine counseling, but they are not mandatory.

It's stupid. We can't fill posts as it is. We'll have no chance if it's made mandatory.

I work for the NHS also, from home. I don't see colleagues let alone patients so what my being vaccinated does for anyone else I don't know.

Currently being pestered to have my third one.

@Mulhollandmagoo

Unfortunately I don't think you do have a leg to stand on no, but FWIW I think mandatory vaccines for NHS is an absolute wacky idea! The NHS is on its knees, we have a shortage of NHS staff so getting rid of a whole heap of trained and experienced staff seems barmy to me, it's takes years to train as a nurse.... We have 5 months before they'll all be leaving its ridiculous! They worked all the way though the height of the pandemic with no vaccine so what's the difference now? I've had mine and was really grateful for it as we sailed through covid when we had it, but everyone's choice is there own. The government cannot think they get a say on what people do with their own bodies

Sadly they do think that though.

Look at history and look up the word dictatorship

The NHS will lose 100,000 staff, the care sector 60,000.
Especially when the virus is still being caught and spread by vaccinated people..it is indeed wacky

All the risks you mentioned OP also come with the risk of actually getting the virus itself and think of potentially long term consequences of covid that people are suffering from

Also so boring people STILL going on about how it doesn’t reduce transmission etc… Yes again no one said it will 100% stop transmission or stop you actually getting it but it MIGHT just save your life if you do get it instead of potentially ending up in hospital on a ventilator.

I’d rather take my risk with the vaccine than covid itself

@Sirzy

The risk of complications from COVID is much higher than the risks from the vaccine. Including myocarditis.

As the mother of a CEV child who has a lot of time in hospitals I am all for knowing that all staff in there have been vaccinated to maximise the protection for themselves, their colleagues and the patients. We can’t do anything about the patients and visitors but we can ensure staff are fully protected.

Except you can't. Because some will be medically exempt.

@RacketeerRalph

And I don't understand it when literally no other vaccine is mandatory.

Um yes they are in healthcare.

Are private hospitals, clinics, dentists, walk in health centres and frontline charities also insisting on vaccine

@SarahBop

Honestly I am saddened that people think this is okay/acceptable.

You honestly think someone should lose their rights to body autonomy? You think someone should lose their freedoms/human rights/a job they're good at and passionate about because they refuse to undergo a medical procedure? Really?

Bear in mind the government make millions of pounds in profit from selling this drug....do they really have peoples safety as a first priority??

Which drug is the government selling? I don't understand your post at all, the government has to buy the vaccines (multiple) from the drugs companies

Unless the OP discusses her reasons for refusing the jab we can't possibly say whether she is unreasonable

Vaccination doesn’t stop you catching Covid or spreading it.

It stops you catching it in a lot of cases. And may reduce the chance of you spreading it.

If you mean it doesn’t totally eliminate the risk of either, it might be better to say so; a lot of people have misinterpreted these kinds of statements as ‘it only reduces symptoms and severe disease’ which is obviously not supported by the evidence.

@MyMoneyIsAllSpent

They are starting with the health care workers but it will be everyone in the end. I'm not prepared to be jabbed. I'm not against vaccines but this doesn't seem like a vaccine to me when you have to keep being jabbed and it can only be administered under emergency law. I fail to see how there is an emergency if the NHS and care homes are prepared to sack staff who won't comply.

You have to “keep being jabbed” with the flu vaccine too. Is that not a real vaccine?

The Union won't do anything. HEP B is also compulsory to work in the NHS. Well it is definitely for the nursing staff!

Unions are doing something about it.

Perhaps you’re not aware that risk assessments should be taking place and are not.

Perhaps you’re not aware that if you get a positive covid test you are considered immune and can have the covid pass for 6 months. Maybe you’re not aware that many people are immune and pose no risk whatsoever but the government is not bothered about that. A test showing immunity will not be accepted. Only a positive test. Does that make sense to you?

It disturbs me that most people don’t understand that there are laws in this country to prevent medical treatment being forced on people. And for good reason.

Mrbob

Please read my subsequent posts. In my trust, there are NO mandatory vaccines. The decision is trust dependent. I'm an NHS manager, I do recruitment, it's literally my job to know!

@SarahBop but shes not losing her right to bodily integrity. She can hold onto that if she so wishes but not with her job. I had a hospital procedure today and I expect everyone there to be vaccinated- if not then they should not work in the health service.

@Colin56 But if you've had YOUR vaccine and you're confident it is helping to protect you, what concern is it if some staff members aren't vaccinated?
Bear in mind the vaccinated staff can, and will, still be carrying covid too ...and also they will ALL have been wearing adequate PPE, the risk to you is utterly minimal.

looking at the figures in Ireland & Germany at the moment vaccinations (and vaccine passports) are unfortunately not managing to stop people catching or transmitting the virus so please don't feel bad.

Do they not help to reduce transmission albeit not stop all?

On a general note, death not only possible outcome. Risk of Long CoVid affects all ages. Probably won’t get it but a risk

@LMonkey

17:30Muchtoomuchtodo

@LMonkey, Can you tell us more about your reasons for not having the vaccine?

There are unarguably reasons as to why we should question any vaccine, especially this one. This is a vaccine which was rushed. There's no long term data for it. We have no idea what effect it will have on peoples bodies 10, 15, 20 years down the line. WE KNOW people have died from blood clots. I know 2 people myself. Fit , healthy, young people. WE KNOW it can cause myocarditis in younger people. It's also clear as bloody day THAT IT DOES NOT STOP TRANSMISSION. If people are happy to accept it, to protect THEMSELVES from extreme disease, then by all means have it. That's your choice.I dont want it.

You’re far more likely to have those complications from the virus than the vaccine op.

And I don't understand it when literally no other vaccine is mandatory

Is this true?

I am old, and if I remember rightly my dear old Mum had to provide vaccination details so I could go to school back in the ahem..... fifties...
I am sure she told me this

You are absolutely not being forced to get the vaccine. You are free to seek employment in an area that does not have this as a job requirement

You don't have to be in contact with patients to get covid. A friend of mine works in medical records, no contact with patients. She's had covid twice, traced back to the hospital. A relative is a porter, deals with non covid patients all day and hasn't caught it yet.

You are being coerced. Generally the public are supportive and I think if you took it to court they would probably win.
So regardless of the rights or wrongs you do have the option of getting another job or having the vaccine.

Oh, and, to travel to certain places in the world I have had to prove, for instance, yellow fever vax

MrBob with all due respect people have already had vaccine 1 vaccine 2 then a booster within the space of a short time, will it then be booster 2,3,4,5? Where is it going to end? The flu vaccine is once a year.