To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@MareofBeasttown yes, exactly! but suspicion of science has never been greater, unfortunately.

Anti-vaxxers point to the temporary suspension of a vaccine and say it proves they're not safe, rather than noting the extreme precautions being taken to minimise the potential for even very rare adverse reactions that usually resolve without complication.

To generalise, the anti vax people I've met are moon howlers.

Seems a fair few of the pro-vax are the ones throwing insults, name calling and demeaning others.

To be fair this seems a little one-sided, particularly given OP’s deletion for demeaning name-calling.

@murcimari here maybe? Want to query these stats?

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

@Mrskellymrskelly

Ignore the sheep OP. Stick to your guns. There's tens of thousands of medical staff not wanting the jab and let's fight back against this dictatorship.

I’m interested to know where you get that figure from. Tens of thousands?

@murcimari
There's plenty of info online about the ~90% uptake, but the BBC did a neat summary here 2 days ago:
www.bbc.com/news/health-55274833

Correct me if I am wrong, but the gov figures show 82 to 88% of people in the UK have received two doses ( scroll down). www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

To generalise, the anti vax people I've met are moon howlers

I only know two, one is all about Big Pharma, the other has genuine health concerns as she's allergic to loads of stuff. I know quite a few people as I'm mid 50's with a good social life and all leapt at the chance to have the vaccine. We are all onto our boosters now, all hail modern science I say

The Office for National Statistics has quite an interesting article (from May) about why people refuse the vaccine. There's nothing new in this MN thread, it's all there:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/covid19vaccinerefusaluk/februarytomarch2021

@Bringonthepjs

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate. Just don't understand.

Oh dear god. So nearly 40 pages of people trying to help you understand and you still don't get it? How many people do you think would have died from the virus without the vaccine you silly woman?!

See what I mean. Rude. Throwing fucking insults.

"you silly woman" No, I'm a grown adult with my own mind, thanks.
I don't need 40 pages of bullies to try and coerce me into something I don't want to do. Coercion won't work on people with strong minds and beliefs.

I find it 'silly' you're so terrified of a virus that is mild in most people - the media (which makes lots of money from selling stories) is generating the fear, because it makes news. But there we go.

@jiggeryjaggerywoo... please do not make me laugh. The govt's own official website?? , whose figures in almost every sense of this pandemic have been repeatedly proven to be completely wrong during the last two yrs??

[quote jiggeryjaggerywoo]@SarahBop

• it's been tested robustly. Why do you think it's "untested"?
• do you not understand that a "novel" virus is one that our immune system has never come across before so won't necessarily know how to fight it? [/quote]

I said LONGTERM untested. Ie - in 2,5,10 years...be interesting to see if the vaccine causes longer term health issues.

Yes it's considered safe at the moment, but as I said previously, so was smoking and asbestos once upon a time.

And yes I do understand Novel virus. My immune system fought covid19, like immune systems tend to do, without the need for a vaccine.

I must be unique in that all the people I know in the UK and all the people I know in my "third world" home country have taken the vax. In my home country, there are shops and restaurants advertising full vaxxed staff. We are all sheep, I guess, with weak minds and beliefs.

as I said above, your main sources of stats and figures are mainstream media and govt websites, the very figures, which have been disputed and proved to be incorrect time and time again 🤐

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate.

The trouble with this position, from a pure logic standpoint, is that you’re applying different standards of evidence.

You are wanting long-term evidence for one thing. (I’m setting aside the information shared about scientific confidence around long-term vaccine effects for the purposes of this argument.)

But then you are comparing it to the evidence for the other thing (Covid), citing the mortality rate, which is short-term only, so you aren’t applying the same lens. There is an identical lack of evidence over the long-term effects of Covid, and much less understanding of its mechanisms on our bodies. So using a short term only figure as your reason for rejecting something that would prevent Covid, based in part on the lack of long-term data, is logically inconsistent.

I do struggle to understand why people have a much higher level of comfort with the potential long-term effects of a disease about which we know really very little, rather than the potential long-term effects of vaccines about which we know much more.

@Bringonthepjs

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate. Just don't understand.

Oh dear god. So nearly 40 pages of people trying to help you understand and you still don't get it? How many people do you think would have died from the virus without the vaccine you silly woman?!

Also - THIS is the issue, everything has become about the virus.

How many people did lockdown kill?? Delayed cancer treatments, appointments, suicides from isolation and depression etc. I'm honestly more angry and concerned about that, than bloody coronavirus.
This government are wicked and are messing with peoples lives (lets all remember, whilst they didn't even follow their own rules)

I'm pro choice. I think people should be able to choose not to have the vaccine. But I also think the NHS is doing the right thing by demanding it, and it should have been done many months ago.

@SarahBop
I find it 'silly' you're so terrified of a virus that is mild in most people.

I'm not terrified by the virus, as I live in such isolation that I'm unlikely to catch it anyway; but the risk of dying from the vaccine is infinitesimal, whereas there is a small % chance of dying from the virus. That'll do me. Plus, the greater the uptake, the more effective the vaccination program will be, and I am really bored with COVID and would like life to go back to something more resembling what used to be normal. The vaccine offers that chance.

I wish those refusing it would just admit they're scared of newfangled stuff, rather than pretending the science is on their side.

There really are some unpleasant people on Mumsnet.

Spouting the word ‘sheep’ is anti-vax bollocks, people vaccinate to protect themselves against becoming gravely ill/death. Vaccines are the biggest breakthrough in medical science and have helped to eradicate many deadly diseases.

I am also surprised people are willing to believe the general public over the scientists who have been working on the vaccine and have all the scientific data.

If you use deodorant, a mobile phone, eat meat/veg, walk outside (exposed to carbon monoxide) etc, you are putting chemicals into your body that are much worse than any vaccine that has ever existed.

So based on that, you are hypocrites!

Then you’re lucky, because not everyone has been so fortunate. What is it that makes you think that millions of healthcare workers, scientists and members of the general public thought it would be a good idea to make up a load of stuff about a virus which isn’t actually that bad?
Why would you think that all those people who are largely unconnected could come up with such common themes and experiences, or that they would want economies and children’s futures to be affected?

Or do you believe in this new world order thing?

as I said above, your main sources of stats and figures are mainstream media and govt websites, the very figures, which have been disputed and proved to be incorrect time and time again

Can you share details of where the vaccine deployment figures have been disputed or proven to be incorrect?

Which statistics are you talking about in particular? Can you share your sources? Much appreciated.

@Bluntness100 Op, I think you’re still missing the point, it’s not the “pro Vaxxers went to town” it’s 90 percent of the population are vaccinated, so you’d expect 90 percent of the responses to be pro vaccine. Of the remaining ten percent many of them will be medically exempt. The amount of people in your category, who are either too scared or believe the conspiracy theories is statistically tiny.

Statistically you were never going to ask the general public and receive lots of support from people like you. You need to go on a dedicated site where the anti vaxxers go

So if 90% are vaccinated, why are rates still increasing? Could it be their vaccine doesn't work as well as they'd made people believe...but no, we'll blame the ones that are refusing to take the vaccine (even though most of those have probably developed natural antibodies anyway)

@MareofBeasttown any point to your post other literally proving how sad the world and our existence have become in the last two years??
In my home country, there are shops and restaurants advertising full vaxxed staff. We are all sheep, I guess, with weak minds and beliefs.

Seems a fair few of the pro-vax are the ones throwing insults, name calling and demeaning others.

I expect they are just frustrated that anti vaxxers like you don't understand the science and refuse to listen to reason.

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate. Just don't understand.

So the 142,000 people who have died from it so far, and the fact that the NHS are struggling to cope and have postponed and cancelled cancer and other serious disease treatment doesn't matter to you? Not to mention the disruption to education, travel and people's jobs?

Plus the untrue statements that you are spouting. It has been mentioned umpteen times on this thread why they have managed to push the vaccine through so quickly, but you refuse to take it in, instead you are sticking your fingers in your ears and singing lalala.

I don't understand why you can't see the bigger picture.

Sorry my message was to @SarahBop but I clearly type slowly!