To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

Op, I’m not being passive aggressive and as is being repeatedly pointed out to you, disagreeing with you is not bullying.

It makes sense if half your family is nig into conspiracy theories and they are all anti vaxxers, that is maybe why you feel your opinion is mainstream,. It’s not. As the ninety percent of vaccinated people would prove.

One more thing, before I posted this thread I did not consider myself anti-vax - I was pro-choice. I never tried to discourage anyone in my family, or just anyone for that matter, to have the vaccine. It just wasn't something I wanted for myself, or my kids if it came to it.
But after all the incredibly horrible comments that have been said here, by rhe 'pro-vaxxers', not because you believe in the vaccine but because of your behaviour towards others about it, and just blatantly berating the people who do not want it, I am truly even more against it now.

@ArabellaScott

It's unhelpful and pointless to divide people into 'pro vax' or anti vax.

The idea that one is morally or intellectually superior for having one or the other stance helps nobody.

What people need is clear information, and the freedom to make their own choices. Manipulating or brow beating or guilting or coercing people is not going to work.

There's plenty of clear information out there. But there is also plenty of incorrect info out there and plenty of anti-vaxxers pushing their agenda. Some people can be given accurate scientific information by the truckload but will still choose to believe the non-fact based rubbish that's being peddled. Look at the MMR scandal? No evidence whatsoever that it causes autism, but apparently lack of evidence means that stuff is being hidden / purposely being held back. How the hell do you argue with people like that? One of the most common things you'll here about the covid vax is that it's been developed too quickly. It's been explained again and again why this was the case. But people chose to ignore that. What can you actually do?

It's unhelpful and pointless to divide people into 'pro vax' or anti vax. The idea that one is morally or intellectually superior for having one or the other stance helps nobody.

What an odd statement. You might equally say we shouldn't divide people into flat and round earthers because both positions are equally valid.

Indeed, no one ever died by thinking the earth was flat.

@LMonkey

One more thing, before I posted this thread I did not consider myself anti-vax - I was pro-choice. I never tried to discourage anyone in my family, or just anyone for that matter, to have the vaccine. It just wasn't something I wanted for myself, or my kids if it came to it. But after all the incredibly horrible comments that have been said here, by rhe 'pro-vaxxers', not because you believe in the vaccine but because of your behaviour towards others about it, and just blatantly berating the people who do not want it, I am truly even more against it now.

And lots of people on here have tried to give you information to allow you to improve your understanding, address some of your concerns and make sure you can give informed consent. At the end of the day not taking it is your decision and one you'll pay a price for. It's very sad that the decision is not based on scientific fact, but again your choice. Good luck finding another role outside of the public sector.

But after all the incredibly horrible comments that have been said here, by rhe 'pro-vaxxers', not because you believe in the vaccine but because of your behaviour towards others about it, and just blatantly berating the people who do not want it, I am truly even more against it now.

Sorry, what? You oppose a medical treatment which has saved tens of thousands of lives already because some people who disagree with you on the internet are mean?

@Carboncheque

I’m so glad that they’re introducing this policy. It’s the sensible thing to do to protect both staff and patients.

I'm shocked it hasn't been done earlier. It should have been ages ago.

Ignore the sheep OP. Stick to your guns. There's tens of thousands of medical staff not wanting the jab and let's fight back against this dictatorship.

@donquixotedelamancha

But after all the incredibly horrible comments that have been said here, by rhe 'pro-vaxxers', not because you believe in the vaccine but because of your behaviour towards others about it, and just blatantly berating the people who do not want it, I am truly even more against it now.

Sorry, what? You oppose a medical treatment which has saved tens of thousands of lives already because some people who disagree with you on the internet are mean?

My DH has just gone for his booster shot. I could kiss the ground the NHS lives on, especially because I am not British and boosters are not available in my home country.

I find the recent discourse on this thread really odd, coming from a country where polio is still rampant. More so given the recent news that the HPV vaccine has reduced cervical cancer cases in the UK by 90%! The misinformation repeated on this thread- the vax does not reduce transmission, vaccines aren't much good blah blah- is shocking to me.I am very happy to be branded pro-vax and firmly believe that I have taken the right decision, not that I am superior.

OP, if you do not want to take the vaccine because people on here disagree with you and have the science to back it up, don't.

@Mrskellymrskelly

Ignore the sheep OP. Stick to your guns. There's tens of thousands of medical staff not wanting the jab and let's fight back against this dictatorship.

Your post really doesn't make you sound like someone who's made a reasoned scientific argument against the covid vaccination, tbh.

@Mrskellymrskelly

Ignore the sheep OP. Stick to your guns. There's tens of thousands of medical staff not wanting the jab and let's fight back against this dictatorship.

And you're not a sheep? As you can see from this thread, the majority of posters choose to believe the science rather than pointlessly dig their heels in on a matter of unjustified principle.

@Mrskellymrskelly

Even Boris Johnson stated "the vaccine doesn't protect you from the virus nor does it stop you from passing it on" Wake up mums, the deaths of teens in the UK has risen 47% since the jab was introduced. The government released figures last week showing covid cases up 103% to the double jabbed! So many Dr's have spoken out against the jab and lost their jobs , Sweden and two other countries have banned the moderns vaccines due to their deadly contents yet the US are using the same said vaccine as their booster jab . The mums commenting on here are under the impression that the government still actually gives a shit about its people! Do your research! Don't just listen to the BBC and ITV!

Oh well, that's my teens dead then. At least I won't have to do their laundry. Your entire post is bullshit and I am reporting it.

@Mrskellymrskelly

Even Boris Johnson stated "the vaccine doesn't protect you from the virus nor does it stop you from passing it on" Wake up mums, the deaths of teens in the UK has risen 47% since the jab was introduced. The government released figures last week showing covid cases up 103% to the double jabbed! So many Dr's have spoken out against the jab and lost their jobs , Sweden and two other countries have banned the moderns vaccines due to their deadly contents yet the US are using the same said vaccine as their booster jab . The mums commenting on here are under the impression that the government still actually gives a shit about its people! Do your research! Don't just listen to the BBC and ITV!

"Do your research? Seriously, are you playing anti-vax bingo?? Please you show us the research that shows that the death of children has gone up 47% since the jab was introduced and how that is due to the vaccination? Any evidence of the other things you're claiming?

I said yesterday this thread was anti-vax bingo and was berated for it, but it is.

@NiceGerbil

I don't understand why people don't want the vaccine. At all.

Millions upon millions have had it. Here. And across the world a truly huge number.

I don't buy the no because feels govt undermining autonomy.

My feel is it's a personal risk assessment. Which says. Covid prob wont be too bad for me/ prob had anyway. Vs irrational fear of preventative jab.

No idea why anyone funny about vaccines but it's a real thing.

Just don't understand.

And likewise, I can't see why someone would want the vaccine...!

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate. Just don't understand.

But that's life isn't it - sometimes we have to agree to disagree, would be boring if we were all the same.

Fear spreads more easily than confidence, and roots itself very deeply, so if you are inclined to anxiety and paranoia the anti-vaxxers know exactly what buttons to push.

It continues to amaze me, though, that fear of the vaccine is greater than fear of the virus.

Maybe this boils down to an emotion that vaccines are "unnatural" and diseases are "natural" and, with any luck, sort themselves out if we just keep eating garlic, etc?

Clinging to the idea that Nature is our friend gets us into all sorts of trouble. To me, refusing the vaccine is a bit like hiking the Scottish mountains on a bright spring day without packing any warm clothing.

Science is hard to understand nowadays, and people are reading and interpreting information that was not written with the lay person in mind. Plus, there is so much information out there (with journals making COVID-related content free, and expediting publication) that it's become a bit like quoting the Bible: you can dip into the literature at random to support almost any statement you like. Especially if you don't take the trouble to read the whole article, or lack the scientific/statistical training to understand it.

Mrskellymrskelly

Disgusting load of anti vaxx crap

@LMonkey

One more thing, before I posted this thread I did not consider myself anti-vax - I was pro-choice. I never tried to discourage anyone in my family, or just anyone for that matter, to have the vaccine. It just wasn't something I wanted for myself, or my kids if it came to it. But after all the incredibly horrible comments that have been said here, by rhe 'pro-vaxxers', not because you believe in the vaccine but because of your behaviour towards others about it, and just blatantly berating the people who do not want it, I am truly even more against it now.

Absolutely.

Seems a fair few of the pro-vax are the ones throwing insults, name calling and demeaning others.

Link to the claims about the Moderna vaccine mentioned below. It's not been banned, just paused, and covid still increases the risk more that the vaccine.

www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-pauses-use-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-young-men-2021-10-07/

Putting something new, longterm untested, blindly into their body..rather than trusting their immune system to fight off a virus with a 97-98% survival rate. Just don't understand.

Oh dear god. So nearly 40 pages of people trying to help you understand and you still don't get it? How many people do you think would have died from the virus without the vaccine you silly woman?!

@SarahBop

• it's been tested robustly. Why do you think it's "untested"?
• do you not understand that a "novel" virus is one that our immune system has never come across before so won't necessarily know how to fight it?

am truly even more against it now. OP, good bit of critical thinking then eh? Just because 90% of people don't agree with you, did you mention being open minded days ago?!

Science is hard to understand nowadays, and people are reading and interpreting information that was not written with the lay person in mind. Plus, there is so much information out there (with journals making COVID-related content free, and expediting publication) that it's become a bit like quoting the Bible: you can dip into the literature at random to support almost any statement you like. Especially if you don't take the trouble to read the whole article, or lack the scientific/statistical training to understand it.

Exactly why you go with what the majority of scientists across the world think and not use your law degree ( that is my degree) to do "research." on Facebook.

@Bluntness100 would love to know where you get this 90% figure from ?!?
Sounds like your friendsip circles need expanding, it's not the OP who lives a sheltered life. Never mind about the fact that you don't know any ordinary people on the other side of the vaccine debate, but more concerningly you are also not aware of the tens of thousands of medical, healthcare, legal professionals, university professors (in the field of statistics, ethics) who are also coming out in droves, publicly (as much as one can with literally everything being censored in the last two yrs) voicing their professional views and concerns. Most of them admit that they've been made aware that they're jeopardising their career yet they keep marching on....
Now OP still "has a choice" to keep her job... whereas these professionals made the choice of possibly losing their livelihoods in order to bring and promote awareness to others and refuse to be silenced. I know your 90% figure (luckily) is completely incorrect. The problem is that the majority of the jabbed population refuse to see and acknowledge that we have been manipulated into seeing the pandemic from a one-sided viewpoint, with absolutely no platform given for any other professional viewpoints.... and that is what makes the other side (i.e. vaccine hesitants) feel extremely EXTREMELY uneasy.