To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

Maybe you should do a little reading about how research works in terms of ethics, prioritising patient safety and the various testing stages and what they mean.

Maybe you should @pointythings

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635

@LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for. I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

I'm on your side op

I know plenty in rl that are too.

I'm pretty sure many will be silently reading and on your side

OP I absolutely despair at the cruel, casual indifference to your predicament on this thread. First off, I’d like to say thank you so much for your role in the NHS, especially over these last few years. I have family members who work in it, and I know it has been gruelling at points. You all deserve such better treatment than this.

As to some of the people in this thread, I don’t even know where to begin. These people would’ve been all too happy to receive care from unvaccinated NHS staff throughout the first wave of the pandemic. But now they’re guilting the same people into getting a vaccine that doesn’t even stop the receiver getting or spreading covid. It’s just all so illogical.

You are being coerced into having a vaccine you don’t want, how people can’t see the problem with that is beyond me. It just seems so painfully obviously that your right to decide what medical interventions you accept should be your decision, free from coercion or guilt.

I think people have lost their fucking minds to be quite honest with you.

@pointythings

Clementineapples for the last time - the COVID vaccine has been through the exact same processes as any other vaccine or medication. The speed with which this has been achieved has been because of 1) unlimited funding, eliminating the usual delays in starting the next stage, 2) streamlining and prioritising the usual permissions process and staffing constraints, 3) international cooperation and 4) existing work on vaccines for SARS and MERS used as a platform, so this work did not start from scratch.

All the above points have been known about. The fact that you choose not to believe them is your problem - you choose not to trust science.
Research safeguarding is very, very different from the way it was in the time that Thalidomide was approved. In addition, in those days the Internet did not exist, and access to data was very limited. The fact that you continue to describe the Thalidomide situation as relevant just tells me you require education in how science works in 2021.

But ultimately this is about choices and consequences. OP is making a choice and that choice has consequences.

I know a lot of young people (vaccinated) who would love to move into NHS admin posts. They'll be filled.

But do you know a lot of people (vaccinated) who would be able to fill the roles of doctors, nurses, GPs, consultants, specialists etc in the NHS who decide to leave if they are made mandatory?

@moregarlic

OP I absolutely despair at the cruel, casual indifference to your predicament on this thread. First off, I’d like to say thank you so much for your role in the NHS, especially over these last few years. I have family members who work in it, and I know it has been gruelling at points. You all deserve such better treatment than this.

As to some of the people in this thread, I don’t even know where to begin. These people would’ve been all too happy to receive care from unvaccinated NHS staff throughout the first wave of the pandemic. But now they’re guilting the same people into getting a vaccine that doesn’t even stop the receiver getting or spreading covid. It’s just all so illogical.

You are being coerced into having a vaccine you don’t want, how people can’t see the problem with that is beyond me. It just seems so painfully obviously that your right to decide what medical interventions you accept should be your decision, free from coercion or guilt.

I think people have lost their fucking minds to be quite honest with you.

Thank you so much When I read comments like this it reminds me that there are still decent, nice, level headed people out there

Ultimately OP, I can’t see the government going through with this. I think it’s most likely an empty threat to coerce more NHS employees into taking the vaccine. (Which if true, is a really grim tactic).

If they went through with it, the NHS would collapse from staff shortages. They already struggle to fill roles / replace retiring employees. (Unless that’s exactly what the tories want, an excuse to privatise!)

I think things would go a lot easier for a lot of people if everyone wasn’t so hostile (on both sides)
To be the idea of forced vaccination is horrifying and people should be able to make their decision without fear of losing their job or being ridiculed.

Thank you @opalplumstead

@LMonkey in my experience, mumsnet is rife with people with very extreme views about covid. Other than a few very elderly relatives, I haven’t come across any of the hysteria that’s regular on here in real life. Most people are just getting on with their lives. And I honestly believe most people would be on your side. I hope this thread hasn’t got you down ❤️

Just get over yourself and get vaccinated like the vast majority of the adult population

@moregarlic

Ultimately OP, I can’t see the government going through with this. I think it’s most likely an empty threat to coerce more NHS employees into taking the vaccine. (Which if true, is a really grim tactic).

If they went through with it, the NHS would collapse from staff shortages. They already struggle to fill roles / replace retiring employees. (Unless that’s exactly what the tories want, an excuse to privatise!)

Well this is the worry too! Someone else said to me "it's the bloody tories trying to privatise". Completely possible and likely. Nothing would shock me now

[quote moregarlic]@LMonkey in my experience, mumsnet is rife with people with very extreme views about covid. Other than a few very elderly relatives, I haven’t come across any of the hysteria that’s regular on here in real life. Most people are just getting on with their lives. And I honestly believe most people would be on your side. I hope this thread hasn’t got you down ❤️[/quote]
Bless you. It did get me down at first. Its been a long time since I posted on MN and I foolishly thought it would be.mostly supportive . I'm not on social media but I think I have an idea now what it's like to be trolled!

There have been some supportive posts, some open minded posts, and to be honest the masses of unsupportive and often vile posts have done absolutely nothing to encourage me to reconsider having the vaccine, even though most of them said "just take the vaccine".

[quote moregarlic]@LMonkey in my experience, mumsnet is rife with people with very extreme views about covid. Other than a few very elderly relatives, I haven’t come across any of the hysteria that’s regular on here in real life. Most people are just getting on with their lives. And I honestly believe most people would be on your side. I hope this thread hasn’t got you down ❤️[/quote]
Agree garlic and my experience in rl is the same

@LMonkey yep. Being told that "there's little to no chance of such a reaction the second time so I NEED to have it." How they know this for certain is anyones guess. I'm not being pressured into it. It's worrying that they're so insistent tbh. Is there not a clause in the consent form we have to sign that absolves anyone else of responsibility in the event of vaccine injury or death? I can't remember, anyway, I've had covid as well as the horrific reaction to the first vaccine which has led to possible heart damage, it's not clear yet. So I'm not risking another dose. I'll have to find another job. I'm having sleepless nights and and am now on anti depressants because of it. It's shit.

What are unions saying about mandatory vaccination or losing your job?

@Clementineapples

Adverse reactions happen.

So let’s force everyone to risk an adverse reaction to a brand new vaccine because they might come into contact with a vulnerable person. Even though vulnerable person is likely vaccinated it’s better to risk our kids just in case.

Thalidomide is super relevant as it’s the same bunch of sheep, trusting the medical professionals and government to know what’s best.
It’s already causing a massive divide and being called stupid and anti-vax and selfish because I don’t want to inject myself with a new vaccine is only furthering the divide.

I wonder who the sheep is here...

Were you around when Thalidomide was used to combat morning sickness? How dare you call those women 'sheep'.

Considering you work for the NHS you are spectacularly badly informed.
Maybe ask some of the medical professionals you work with how it all works.

[quote moregarlic]@LMonkey in my experience, mumsnet is rife with people with very extreme views about covid. Other than a few very elderly relatives, I haven’t come across any of the hysteria that’s regular on here in real life. Most people are just getting on with their lives. And I honestly believe most people would be on your side. I hope this thread hasn’t got you down ❤️[/quote]
I don't know anyone who would be on the OP's side in RL except for the couple of (former) friends who are so far down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories they can't see daylight.

Everyone I know is aghast that there are still people who can't see the benefit for themselves and everyone else

@Fireworksatforty

Oh.my.god. This is what I mean. How are people ignoring stuff like this and insisting we should all take it?? Possible heart damage. Jeez. I wouldn't even get past the consent form, because I would want to make sure someone is liable if the worst happened.
Wow. Good luck to you finding something else, and I hope you feel better (mentally and physically) very, very soon

But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine.

But regardless of this, I strongly feel that nobody should be forced to have to have contact with someone who refuses the vaccine.

@Nanny0gg
What about the numerous people on this thread who have mentioned heart damage? What is your answer to that? Are they mistaken? Imagining it? Please enlighten us.

www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-08-27-covid-19-not-vaccination-presents-biggest-blood-clot-risks

Thoughts on these two articles @LMonkey?

@LMonkey heart damage with Pfizer? Yes there is a very, very rare chance that you will have a slightly inflamed heart after the vaccination for a few weeks, particularly if you are younger and male. However no one has become seriously ill or died from this, just monitoring.

You have a massively increased risk of an inflamed heart from getting COVID, many many times more than the risk of the vaccine. And also of course massively increased risk of a number of other things as well if you get the vaccine.

Sorry word fail!
Massively increased risk of a number of other things as well if you DON’t get the vaccine and you get Covid!

No risk of blood clots with Pfizer.