To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@Cailleach
Thank you for proving my point that polio, despite how long it has been around has not been cured.

Why is it so difficult to understand that a vaccine that has been worked on for years, with a lot of data behind it is not the same as a brand new vaccine where no one knows the long term side effects? Is everyone forgetting that thalidomide for example was perfectly safe, a miracle drug for pregnant women, amazing advance in science until it wasn’t and people began to realise the side effects. I’m not willing to be a guinea pig. In a few years, with data, long term side effects etc I might change my mind.

Clementineapples let me tell you this again. Imagine me speaking slowly.

Thalidomide. Was. Not. A. Vaccine.

You cannot compare medications and vaccines. They do not do the same things. It's like comparing apples and whale sharks.

The Thalidomide scandal also led to a global and intense tightening up of research processes. Maybe you should do a little reading about how research works in terms of ethics, prioritising patient safety and the various testing stages and what they mean.

The flu vax and the covid vax cannot be compared.

I don't take the flu jab either but people declining the flu jab is not plunging us into a lockdown, school closures, missed education, hospital treatment suspended and hospitals being over run!! That is the difference

@LMonkey

:*53changingstages

LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for.
I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

Unfortunately it's you who is small minded.*

Unless you care to elaborate this really makes no sense

It's nothing to do with 'points of view'

It's to do with medical and scientific evidence.

Which is what I choose to believe

[quote Cailleach]@Clementineapples

"Vaccines have never cured anything except smallpox"

You may want to look up the word "polio." Also Google the phrase "iron lung" and "leg calipers" whilst you're at it.[/quote]
Trouble is, many people on here have not seen the results of polio and other such diseases.

I know there are still outbreaks of measles etc but they are nowhere near as rife as when I was a child.

So they are all sooo complacent about vaccines.
Whereas others of us really appreciate the opportunity to have them

@LMonkey I'm also a med sec and agree with you. I'm looking for another job sadly. I've worked for the nhs for 17 years but I'm looking in the private sector now. I had a horrific reaction to the first vaccine but apparently not enough for the powers that be to agree that I shouldn't have the second. I don't have to have any other vaccines for my role. Why should I have this one?
I've had enough.

[quote Fireworksatforty]@LMonkey I'm also a med sec and agree with you. I'm looking for another job sadly. I've worked for the nhs for 17 years but I'm looking in the private sector now. I had a horrific reaction to the first vaccine but apparently not enough for the powers that be to agree that I shouldn't have the second. I don't have to have any other vaccines for my role. Why should I have this one?
I've had enough. [/quote]
I think that’s fair enough, you’re taking responsibility for the decision you need to make for your health, it’s different to the op though, she’s not having it as she believes the conspiracy theories and wishes to see if she can fight it to stay employed.

I know there are still outbreaks of measles etc but they are nowhere near as rife as when I was a child.

I’m not anti vax. My son and myself are vaccines against polio etc because there has been years of research, data and information.
Can you tell me the long term side effects of having three covid vaccines in less than a year?
Can you tell me the effects of baby development over a life time after a pregnant woman has the vaccine?
Can you tell me why the government happily sells cigarettes, tobacco and alcohol - causing addiction and straining nhs resources, shortening lives. But I, as a healthy, non vulnerable person, aren’t allowed to see my family without a vaccine passport because it’s to ‘protect’ myself and others from a virus that has a 99% survival rate.

Maybe you should do a little reading about how research works

Maybe you should imagine me speaking slowly.

Vaccines. Should. Not. Be. Mandatory.

Regardless of what anyone thinks it’s a human rights violation.

ClementineApples many countries in the world disagree with you. I would love it if the UK followed suit and mandated that all children should be vaccinated against measles, polio, tetanus and all those things. Because antivaxxers shouldn't be allowed to expose their children to dangerous diseases.

Also - well done completely and wilfully missing the point about your inappropriate comparison between Thalidomide and vaccines.

Fireworksatforty I would be fully in favour of medical exemptions for people who have had serious adverse reactions to the vaccine. Adverse reactions happen.

Can you tell me the long term side effects of having three covid vaccines in less than a year?

A poster upthread helpfully set out the science between the (lack of) effects from vaccines that don’t appear until months or years after the vaccine - vaccines are very different from drugs in their mechanism in the human body.
This article may help.

We don’t ‘know’, any more than we don’t know whether the rotavirus vaccine we’re now giving babies will cause them to grow a third nipple when they turn forty.

But scientists have a strong degree of confidence based on understanding of how immunisation works in the human body, developed over many decades.

We come back to the certainty/guarantee point, right? This is about understanding the degrees of risk we’re comfortable with.

unfortunately I don't think there will be any way round it. I work for the NHS and have a colleague who is very good at their job and will not have the vaccine. I'm double jabbed but am thinking of leaving as I don't agree with making it mandatory.

Adverse reactions happen.

So let’s force everyone to risk an adverse reaction to a brand new vaccine because they might come into contact with a vulnerable person. Even though vulnerable person is likely vaccinated it’s better to risk our kids just in case.

Thalidomide is super relevant as it’s the same bunch of sheep, trusting the medical professionals and government to know what’s best.
It’s already causing a massive divide and being called stupid and anti-vax and selfish because I don’t want to inject myself with a new vaccine is only furthering the divide.

Find another job.

I work in a hospital and a lot of agency nurses have lost lines on wards etc as arent vaccinated and are not being employed for that reason.i think too right.i mean how can managers employ them and the next thing they are upstairs in icu on the stomachs ventilated. That as a manager I couldnt live with so thats fine. Find another job and good luck! Its too risky for themselves around sick people.

@RosesAndHellebores

You know *@LMonkey* your issues aren't my problem, aren't my monkey. But if I may say ducks as you have levelled down to pass ag endearments you really are very rude. MNet used to have an affectionate endearment known as "atrocious cunt". S meet-up even had badges for us all to wear.

You my love fit simply into the box marked "c". I had some affection for little cat c.

Most of your post doesn't make sense. But I'd love to know exactly where and how I've been so rude, that justifies you calling me a c**t. Not to mention the very fact that you are saying that just wreaks of hypocrisy.

Look at my OP; I am not trying to provoke any of this BS. What you have just said to me is just unnecessary.

Clementineapples for the last time - the COVID vaccine has been through the exact same processes as any other vaccine or medication. The speed with which this has been achieved has been because of 1) unlimited funding, eliminating the usual delays in starting the next stage, 2) streamlining and prioritising the usual permissions process and staffing constraints, 3) international cooperation and 4) existing work on vaccines for SARS and MERS used as a platform, so this work did not start from scratch.

All the above points have been known about. The fact that you choose not to believe them is your problem - you choose not to trust science.
Research safeguarding is very, very different from the way it was in the time that Thalidomide was approved. In addition, in those days the Internet did not exist, and access to data was very limited. The fact that you continue to describe the Thalidomide situation as relevant just tells me you require education in how science works in 2021.

But ultimately this is about choices and consequences. OP is making a choice and that choice has consequences.

I know a lot of young people (vaccinated) who would love to move into NHS admin posts. They'll be filled.

Thalidomide is super relevant as it’s the same bunch of sheep, trusting the medical professionals and government to know what’s best.It’s already causing a massive divide and being called stupid and anti-vax and selfish because I don’t want to inject myself with a new vaccine is only furthering the divide

Your tribe is here op. The use of the word sheep proves it

On a separate note as ninety percent of the population are vaccinated there is clearly no “massive divide”.

@Clementineapples

Adverse reactions happen.

So let’s force everyone to risk an adverse reaction to a brand new vaccine because they might come into contact with a vulnerable person. Even though vulnerable person is likely vaccinated it’s better to risk our kids just in case.

Thalidomide is super relevant as it’s the same bunch of sheep, trusting the medical professionals and government to know what’s best.
It’s already causing a massive divide and being called stupid and anti-vax and selfish because I don’t want to inject myself with a new vaccine is only furthering the divide.

[quote Fireworksatforty]@LMonkey I'm also a med sec and agree with you. I'm looking for another job sadly. I've worked for the nhs for 17 years but I'm looking in the private sector now. I had a horrific reaction to the first vaccine but apparently not enough for the powers that be to agree that I shouldn't have the second. I don't have to have any other vaccines for my role. Why should I have this one?
I've had enough. [/quote]
I'm a med sec too. 38 years. Taken early retirement and gone on the bank staff. I can work without having to conform to vaxx stuff etc. Plus they can't recruit to vacant posts, so I have my pick of jobs.

*Fireworksatforty

@LMonkey I'm also a med sec and agree with you. I'm looking for another job sadly. I've worked for the nhs for 17 years but I'm looking in the private sector now. I had a horrific reaction to the first vaccine but apparently not enough for the powers that be to agree that I shouldn't have the second. I don't have to have any other vaccines for my role. Why should I have this one?
I've had enough.

I think that’s fair enough, you’re taking responsibility for the decision you need to make for your health, it’s different to the op though, she’s not having it as she believes the conspiracy theories and wishes to see if she can fight it to stay employed.*

Please get the facts right: its not just that I "believe the conspiracy theories". I think it's important to consider the possibility that's all. My main concerns are health problems following the vaccine, there's no conspiracy about that. We know it happens. Others have also spoken about it on this thread. Why ignore this?

I've had the vaccine and am grateful for this but I agree with you. It's a choice and no one should be backed into a corner like this.

[quote Fireworksatforty]@LMonkey I'm also a med sec and agree with you. I'm looking for another job sadly. I've worked for the nhs for 17 years but I'm looking in the private sector now. I had a horrific reaction to the first vaccine but apparently not enough for the powers that be to agree that I shouldn't have the second. I don't have to have any other vaccines for my role. Why should I have this one?
I've had enough. [/quote]
God that sucks , I'm sorry to hear that.
Absolutely unbelievable that having such an adverse reaction doesn't make you exempt.
I'm guessing you have had pressure from your management to get the vaccine seeing as you are already looking for a new job?
Yep I've never had pressure to get any other vaccines for my role either.
I do wonder how they (the trust, management etc) would feel if we reluctantly succumbed to the coercion for the sake of our jobs, then had a hideous reaction to the vaccine and died.

@Coyoacan

How horrible all the posts here are. It is not choice when you have to lose your job. I despair of the English and how willingly people give up their freedoms and I say that as someone who is vaccinated

This ^^ also vaccinated but don't think it should be mandatory

(And if people will lose their jobs for not having it then that IS mandatory isn't it )