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To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

999 replies

LMonkey · 05/11/2021 16:55

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

OP posts:
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Getyourarseofffthequattro · 06/11/2021 11:03

*well

Sirzy · 06/11/2021 11:04

The more you post the more it seems you won’t be a loss to the NHS!

Lilifer · 06/11/2021 11:06

[quote MrsTulipTattsyrup]@Getyourarseofffthequattro I refer you to the OP’s post above, where she confirms my suspicions of being a conspiracy theorist by talking about a conspiracy, and referencing Bill Gates.

You will note that I didn’t say anything to discredit the possibility that this was man-made - I simply noted that the only people I heard heard broadcasting that view were conspiracy theorists. And I have now been proven right in this instance.[/quote]

Sigh - well then you must not read newspapers

Check out this article from Bloomberg from about two weeks ago discussing why the lab leak theory should be taken seriously and investigated.

Nsmum14 · 06/11/2021 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

TrevorFountain · 06/11/2021 11:08

I wonder I those nasal swabs from China for the lateral flow tests have got microchips in that transfer into the mucus membrane of the nostril when you do the rotating sweeps? Maybe we need to WAKE UP AND FUCK OFF about it.

I've heard this new Dune's very good. The last film version was unwatchable, sadly. Very disappointing for sci-fi fans.

lemmein · 06/11/2021 11:08

[quote ineedsun]@lemmein

Might not have added to this discussion but if you work in healthcare it’s concerning that you don’t know the difference so hopefully your practice will improve moving forward.[/quote]
I don't work in healthcare, but again, thanks for your input.

MareofBeasttown · 06/11/2021 11:10

[quote Nsmum14]@LMonkey i get it. It is shameful to force you to vaccinate, given that we now know having the vaccination does not reduce transmission. If anything it is likely to increase it, as once you have your QR code you can go places without any tests in a way the demonised unvaccinated can't.
People have lost the capacity to think critically, as demonstrated by this thread.
I am sorry you are going through this stress, and may lose your job due to collective insanity.[/quote]
But it does reduce transmission. Why is this being repeated again and again? At least the vaccine zealots have their facts right.

Bluntness100 · 06/11/2021 11:10

Look op. In all seriousness, you have until April, as such, if you need the money you need to start applying for jobs now. The British medical journal states you’re twenty times more likely to catch Covid from a unvaccinated person than an vaccinated one.

Approx 8 percent of nhs staff are unvaccinated. In countries where it’s been made mandatory then there is a huge jump as people then have the vaccine, a lot of them not doing so is due to health anxiety etc, and only a small percentage will be conspiracy theorists like yourself. In the type of role you do they will be able to replace you relatively easily.

So you need to start looking for jobs now. You’ve only got four or five months before your employment is terminated and you need the money.

Bringonthepjs · 06/11/2021 11:10

Nsmum14

Total eye roll

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 06/11/2021 11:12

In the type of role you do they will be able to replace you relatively easily

Lol. We've already had this conversation. It's really not that easy. There are loads of vacant roles already. I'm sure loads of people will be rushing for the shit pay and extra conditions of employment plus a ridiculously long recruitment process and all the other shit that comes with it. They're practically queueing round the block Grin

TreborBore · 06/11/2021 11:14

[quote Nsmum14]@LMonkey i get it. It is shameful to force you to vaccinate, given that we now know having the vaccination does not reduce transmission. If anything it is likely to increase it, as once you have your QR code you can go places without any tests in a way the demonised unvaccinated can't.
People have lost the capacity to think critically, as demonstrated by this thread.
I am sorry you are going through this stress, and may lose your job due to collective insanity.[/quote]
Covid vaccination does reduce transmission: www.newscientist.com/article/2294250-how-much-less-likely-are-you-to-spread-covid-19-if-youre-vaccinated/

Witchwithacat · 06/11/2021 11:14

OP I was sympathetic to you until you said ‘Follow your sheep!’
You are spouting anti-vax propaganda.

The death toll is considerable lower than before vaccines were introduced, especially those who were clinically vulnerable. I’m sure they weren’t following the sheep but were doing it to protect themselves.

lemmein · 06/11/2021 11:14

Do people really believe this will actually happen? Hmm

I heard on LBC yesterday that 10% of healthcare workers are unvaccinated - that's a massive hit, along with the Brexit losses - no way will they go ahead with it.

Spidey66 · 06/11/2021 11:15

I don't understand the fuss. I've been in nursing 35 years. We've always needed HepB and BCG to work.....this is the same thing really.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 06/11/2021 11:18

@Spidey66

I don't understand the fuss. I've been in nursing 35 years. We've always needed HepB and BCG to work.....this is the same thing really.
It's not the same though is it. You have direct patient contact, she doesn't.
NotExactlyOptimistic · 06/11/2021 11:19

@LMonkey

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here? I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.
I support you OP ignore the bullying on here x
LiveForeverHappily · 06/11/2021 11:19

Do people really believe this will actually happen

There’s lots of things I’d have said wouldn’t have happened over the last few years but they have. I hope this doesn’t happen but who knows.

The NHS is a shit organisation to work for, I know quite a few who have left over the last few years and now can’t believe they put up with the crap pay and conditions for so long.

JassyRadlett · 06/11/2021 11:21

It is shameful to force you to vaccinate, given that we now know having the vaccination does not reduce transmission.

This is misinformation. We do know ‘know’ this, quite the opposite. We know that the vaccine prevents the majority of infections (breaking transmission chains). The picture on secondary transmission is more mixed with Delta. UK research indicates the impact on household (ie highest risk) secondary transmission is limited; research out of the Netherlands and the US on the other hand indicates the impact on overall secondary transmission may be as high as a 63% reduction.

Can you share the studies that you feel show no impact on infection or secondary transmission?

donquixotedelamancha · 06/11/2021 11:22

I don't understand the fuss. I've been in nursing 35 years. We've always needed HepB and BCG to work.

I don't think there will be many nurses or doctors affected. Arguably those who are shouldn't be in the job because there is a serious problem with their training.

Some supports staff will be affected but there aren't shortages in most of those areas (except caring roles).

Arguably trading some replaceable support staff for less absence in medical staff is a smart move, even without the benefits to patients.

donquixotedelamancha · 06/11/2021 11:23

I support you OP ignore the bullying on here

Disagreement is not bullying.

Conflictedboobs · 06/11/2021 11:27

I think we all need to get back to the point. The OP believes what she believes. She came here to find people who support her view that NHS workers shouldn’t need vaccinations and she’s been met with the opposing view.

If you’d like practical support OP, the great news is that at the moment there’s a very hot job market for clerical staff and as an admin person you’ll have loads of transferable skills. Getting a new job at the moment really is very very easy no matter where you live and you’ll probably end up with a pay rise out of it too given you have 10 years experience and will be NHS banded at the moment.

Fundamentally, your views no longer align with those of your employer on the matter of vaccines. If this is so so core to your sense of self and your personal morality.. if you have internalised this debate so strongly that it’s worth quitting your job over, if you are so frarfult hat the risk of financial destitution is less in your mind than the risk from the vaccine, then you have your answer.

Before you make you decision, do make sure you take the time to open your mind and consider though that the vaccine may in fact be completely safe (as you’ve said yourself it’s important to consider every view) and what the implications of you quitting your job over this might be if that’s the case. If the vaccine is (as if overwhelmingly likely) safe, and you look back on this time in 10 years will you be happy that you quit your job, your pension etc?

If so, you have your answer. If not, go and get vaccinated. It’s that simple.

ftw163532 · 06/11/2021 11:29

I'm fine for NHS workers who behave like this op has (both on the thread and offline) to be dismissed.

I don't think there should be a place for this kind of behaviour in the NHS.

TreborBore · 06/11/2021 11:29

What a sensible list @Conflictedboobs Smile

TreborBore · 06/11/2021 11:29

Post

Lilifer · 06/11/2021 11:31

Whether or not the coronavirus was leaked in a lab during gain of function research or developed naturally should not really impact on our decision whether or not to take the vaccine.
Regardless of ts provenance it is a serious and dangerous (for some) virus and so if there is a vaccine available and we want to be protected from death or hospitalisation then common sense would say that it is a good idea to take it.

But mandatory?? ? Nope. Vaccines have never been mandatory in the UK and making this one mandatory will actually work to sow distrust in people who prefer to exercise choice over these things. Witness the huge uptake of polio, MMR, BCG flu vaccine etc most people take these vaccines or have their children take them because they make a sensible rational decision that is not made under coercion.

As soon as the vaccine is associated with coercion then it is human nature that more people will resist it. So it is just stupid, as well as authoritarian, to make this vaccine mandatory.

And before someone brings up health care workers please see upthread my link on this, HCWs are* asked to get HepB vaccine if they are likely to come in to contact with blood in their work. This is to protect them not their patients. Furthermore this is Not mandated by law, it is guidance and not even guidance in some trusts. Afaik it has not been challenged by any HCW, so apparently most HCWs are happy to have it done. But if it were the case that a surgeon who was already in the employ of a trust and who had not had the HepB vaccine was then told he/she would lose their job if they didn't get the HepB jab that would depend on whether they challenged it or not. And who knows how it would go if taken to court. It's unlikely this would happen because I repeat it's to protect the hcw.* no one working within a surgical setting is going to want to leave themselves open to contracting HepB from infected blood product.

As my full facts.org link states upthread Matt Hancock was wrong to say there was legal precedent for mandatory vaccine in healthcare - whether this was deliberate or not who knows, but given this government's record of lying and obfuscating and about-turns I know what I would say about his motivations.

I don't believe this government will proceed with this anyway unless they actually want the nhs to collapse, which is possible I suppose - but I suspect, like vaccine passports, they will threaten and make noises about it but never actually follow through because they hope that the threat alone will push people into getting vaccinated.

Coercion and threats do not work, all they are doing is making more and more people pissed off and suspicious of their motives and who can be suprised when conspiracy theories then start to take hold.

But read the facts people for gods sake. And don't dismiss the lab leak possibility, it has been seriously discussed in the mainstream media for months now, it's not some lunatic fringe theory.

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