To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

I really believe MPs and health officials should be forced (I mean, 'encouraged' )to share their vaccine status - it would be interesting to see how many are following their own advice.

[quote MrsTulipTattsyrup]@Getyourarseofffthequattro I refer you to the OP’s post above, where she confirms my suspicions of being a conspiracy theorist by talking about a conspiracy, and referencing Bill Gates.

You will note that I didn’t say anything to discredit the possibility that this was man-made - I simply noted that the only people I heard heard broadcasting that view were conspiracy theorists. And I have now been proven right in this instance.[/quote]
Fair enough. I don't believe the bill gates nonsense but nor do I think China have a great record of honesty

@LiveForeverHappily

The children cannot be at present; the medical secretary choses not to be.

You do realise that the virus doesn’t know this.

Which is why people speak in terms of risk reduction rather than elimination.

@MareofBeasttown

Doesn't matter. She is in contact with vulnerable people with low immunity. And I bet she will still be moaning next year, or the year after next, when the surgeon's hypothetical unvaxxed children below 12 are vaxxed. As eventually everyone will be.

She isn't in contact with vulnerable people. She's in an office somewhere.

Why do conspiracy theorists bandy around the word sheep when everything they come out with is like they are reading from a script with no independent thoughts of their own. "Sheep, wake up, do your research, Bill Gates" Oh and have we had "control" yet, not noticed that one so far. Who are the Sheep here??

Ah yes, you are right, she is not in contact with vulnerable people. However, she raises the larger point of whether NHS staff shd be vaxxed at all. I think they should. And it is going to be difficult to exempt some staff and not others.

@LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for. I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

Unfortunately it's you who is small minded.

Well just fuck off then. Carry on and flow your sheep. Am I not allowed to be human and have an open mind? If you're not going to believe what I'm saying fuck off and do something better with your weekend

Well I’m off to see dune later but right now I’m good with sofa surfing and enjoying your thread. 😃

@TreborBore

OP, your language suggests that you are an anti vaxer, or if you are not, that you have been internalizing antivax propaganda on social media. I suspect that nothing anyone says to you will change your mind on the vaccine. The point of this thread was to whip up outrage about the government removing your choice to vaccinate or not by the threat of removing you from your job.

So I am not sure if I should bother to continue to engage. If you are genuinely trying to navigate this situation with health anxiety, it is not a nice situation for you, so on the off chance that you are genuine I will have one last try.

As per my op, I do not want the covid vaccine. That is what this has all been about. As mentioned previously, believe it or not, I do not follow social media.

I think it is quite evident from my original post that I was inviting advice and support about a predicament that nhs workers are finding ourselves in if we don't wish to have the vaccine. Not to "whip up outrage about the government". That came later after I received a barage of judgement from people incapable of seeing things from anothers perspective

That came later after I received a barage of judgement from people incapable of seeing things from anothers perspective

We can see it for others perspective, we as in the majority don’t agree with you. Choices have consequences.

Well I’m off to see dune later but right now I’m good with sofa surfing and enjoying your thread.

I’m seeing Dune later too, not sure it’s my thing but have reluctantly agreed as Oscar Isaac is in it. 😂 Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy it.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro -usually I don't respond to those who don't use please. However, the stats are very simple. The fewer unvaccinated people one interacts with the lower the risks. Also, the consultant might not have children, they may be adults and living outside the home.

A lot of vaccine disinformation on this thread. I suppose statistically some of you must actually believe this bullshit and not be bots, which is a worry.

You absolutely have a choice OP. Get the vaccine, continue to work for your employer. Don't get the vaccine, find another job.

I've had to have several vaccines as a condition of employment. If I didn't want those vaccines I'd have had to find another job. It would have been my choice.

@LiveForeverHappily

Well I’m off to see dune later but right now I’m good with sofa surfing and enjoying your thread.

I’m seeing Dune later too, not sure it’s my thing but have reluctantly agreed as Oscar Isaac is in it. 😂 Maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised and enjoy it.

Me too, husband really wants to see it, so I’ve agreed, my daughter went to see it and says it’s really not my thing 😂

:*53changingstages

LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for.
I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

Unfortunately it's you who is small minded.*

Unless you care to elaborate this really makes no sense

And it becomes infuriatingly clear that people state all their knowledge and 'facts' without considering what else is POSSIBLY happening.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

As per my op, I do not want the covid vaccine

Literally most of the developed world has had it, none of us have turned into chip run lizards as far as i can see. We are having to have boosters now as vaccine effects are waning - I ask you again - what on earth do you think is going to be happening years down the line that is so dreadful and that only you and a few other 'sheep' can see?

@Alcemeg

And it becomes infuriatingly clear that people state all their knowledge and 'facts' without considering what else is POSSIBLY happening.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Nope. That dastardly bill gates.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Getyourarseofffthequattro -usually I don't respond to those who don't use please. However, the stats are very simple. The fewer unvaccinated people one interacts with the lower the risks. Also, the consultant might not have children, they may be adults and living outside the home.[/quote]
That's not what I asked. I asked how she was more of a risk than unvaccinated children.

I mean the fact they "might not have children" is true but ridiculous considering the comparison we are making here.

Maybe they don't have children but they go to the pub after every shift. Swings and roundabouts.

We imagine hcps as these perfect people who only work and go home, who's only focus is their patients and their whole life revolves around COVID safety but that just isn't a reality at all.

But none that have been developed quickly within a year following what is obviously a man made virus where the drug companies won't accept liability.

Three pieces of misinformation in one sentence. To take these one at a time…

“But none that have been developed quickly within a year”
The speed of development is not a safety issue. Vacccine development is a huge financial risk for vaccine companies. Vaccine companies do not usually have government support to develop vaccines as quickly as possible, so the financial risk is usually managed by waiting for the full results from one piece of development work before making the decision to invest in the next piece of work. Over 3 billion people have received two doses of vaccine. There is a wealth of safety data available, likely more than for other vaccines that have been around for considerably longer.

“following what is obviously a man made virus”. How is it ‘obviously’ a man made virus? Coronaviruses were discovered in the 50s and have been circulating in some form for 1000s of years. Viruses evolve - new epidemics occur regularly, and occasionally a pandemic happens. Why is this even relevant in your decision making if you are not a conspiracy theorist?

“Where the drug companies won’t accept liability.”
It is usual in a pandemic for government to take on the financial risk, otherwise no company would take the risk of developing a vaccine. The government will compensate you if you are damaged by the vaccine. www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-add-covid-19-to-vaccine-damage-payments-scheme

@LiveForeverHappily

We’re talking about a medical secretary, not a surgeon.

A medical secretary who works closely with a frontline professional.....

Also, the consultant might not have children, they may be adults and living outside the home.

But their partner may be unvaccinated. Or he/she may be single and dating unvaccinated people. Or their family and friends may be. People just want to act superior.

This is exactly what I’m talking about when I say the erosion of trust in genuine expertise is really really dangerous. I’m sure you’re an incredibly sane, normal person (I mean that) and yet you’ve been reduced to using the word ‘perrrlease’ and calling people ‘sheep’ for doing something as basic as getting vaccinated because it’s recommended by just about every credible and accredited expert on virology there is, independent or otherwise.

This⏫ with bells on

I've seen some frankly horrific behaviour from once close & very longtime friends that has shocked me to the bone, because I've always known them as sane lovely people... I've had to step right back from those friendships due to quite school yard behaviour I'd never expect from them, but I'm not in their antivaxx Covid denying gang... I'm trying to keep my eye on the fact that this antivaxxers denier stance is a well documented fear response & see what happens when this is all over... not sure I can ever see some of them in the same light again though given the ridiculous denial of faked videos etc that I've provided proof for & telling people theres formaldehyde in the vaccine, whilst saying more fruit & veg will boost your immunity to beat Covid which is just a flu to healthy people... not even knowing that formaldehyde is in the fruit & veg they advocate, when it's their trade... I was called a "lefty do gooder Sheeple" for pointing it out ... by someone who was probably the most left leaning person I know

I think I can get over it given the fear, but I'm not sure my respect for their intelligence will ever be the same again... time will tell I suppose

@Ghoulette we will not physically closely. They should be distancing and wearing ppe and have number limits in rooms still.