To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

What do you think about the information provided on the thread about the Greek health workers' case progressing through the European Court of Human Rights, @LMonkey?

I thought that's the sort of thing you were asking about, tbh.

Hey @LMonkey Looks like good news for you

Alex is suggesting that as the mandatory NHS jab is now not compulsory until spring, by spring it will quietly disappear as it'll be deemed no longer needed. We'll see I guess.

Op, do you believe vaccines are a secret ploy to insert micro chips? Can you share with us your views? 😃

@MrsTulipTattsyrup

The OP has now stated that covid is “obviously a man made virus”.

Stand down, everyone; we’re all wasting our time with sense and stats.

The only people I’ve heard this from are the lost tribes of conspiracy theorists. We’re not going to change the OP’s mind, no matter what we say.

Considering the WHO thought it was worth investigating it's not exactly an odd conclusion to come to is it?

If any NHS staff are unvaccinated I don't wish to be treated by them. I also don't want any of them, not least my potential operating consultant to have been unnecessarily exposed to the virus by his ill-informed secretary whose behaviour in relation to others is reckless.

On a slightly different tack if nurses or others in the NHS are able to chose whether to be vaccinated they need to wear a flashing badge saying so, so that the silly old patients can decline their care. May I also venture if covid vacs are not made compulsory in the NHS that the NHS overall, particularly HVs and GPs, adopt a rather less dictatorial and more respectful stance in relation to childhood vaccinations. I hasten to add mine were vaccinated.

@RosesAndHellebores

If any NHS staff are unvaccinated I don't wish to be treated by them. I also don't want any of them, not least my potential operating consultant to have been unnecessarily exposed to the virus by his ill-informed secretary whose behaviour in relation to others is reckless.

On a slightly different tack if nurses or others in the NHS are able to chose whether to be vaccinated they need to wear a flashing badge saying so, so that the silly old patients can decline their care. May I also venture if covid vacs are not made compulsory in the NHS that the NHS overall, particularly HVs and GPs, adopt a rather less dictatorial and more respectful stance in relation to childhood vaccinations. I hasten to add mine were vaccinated.

Presumably you don't want your consultant to go home to their unvaccinated children either then?

What kind of anti-vaxxer? One that questions something that we're all being pushed to have injected in our body??

Ahh you're that kind of human, the kind that never questions anything, never doubts the government, does what your told, refuses to look at the bigger picture. OPEN YOUR EYES

Open your eyes - honestly you've revealed yourself 100% now. Feckin rabid anti vaxxer with bonkers conspiracy theories to boot....

[quote MrsTulipTattsyrup]@lemmein

I refer you to the OP’s post above, where she uses the conspiracy word and mentions Bill Gates.

No further questions, m’lud.[/quote]
The thing is though, if governments (and the WHO) aren't transparent then it leads to people being fearful and suspicious of vaccines. I'd much rather they put their hands up and said 'look we fucked up, experiments are done to aid future medical interventions but on this occasion it's created a shit show, sorry' rather than pretending it was all caused by a bat!

Governments are to blame for vaccine hesitancy - when you are caught telling a lie once it makes people doubt everything you say.

I'm truly amazed that MN are largely in favour of coerced vaccines; baffling- it's as if vaccine injury isn't a thing. It really doesn't help batting peoples concerns away under 'conspiracies'. People from BAME communities for example have historically been used in medical experiments - I can understand why they'd be mistrustful. Coercion (or indeed force) only increases the mistrust.

Presumably you don't want your consultant to go home to their unvaccinated children either then?

Exactly. People are so busy being superior and enjoying being nasty about unvaccinated people, that they’re not really thinking things through at all. Pathetic and sad.

If you're not going to believe what I'm saying fuck off and do something better with your weekend

What are you saying? You haven't told us anything particularly groundbreaking have you? What should we be questioning? What do we need to open our eyes to?

Having gone through lock down “to save the nhs”, the least the saved nhs can do for us is to have the jab to save itself or go find another job. Your choice is yours; you’re not being hard done by or discriminated.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro - if the surgeon's DC are over 12 they will have been vaccinated. If under 12 the vaccine is not yet licenced for that age group. I would expect a consultant physician or surgeon to take all possible steps to reduce their interactions with the virus

@AtillatheHun absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Getyourarseofffthequattro - if the surgeon's DC are over 12 they will have been vaccinated. If under 12 the vaccine is not yet licenced for that age group. I would expect a consultant physician or surgeon to take all possible steps to reduce their interactions with the virus[/quote]
Well yes so their under 12 children are just as much of a risk as the med sec. Well more so because presumably he doesn't live with the med sec, or cuddle her, or look after her when she is sick.

if the surgeon's DC are over 12 they will have been vaccinated.

Not necessarily.

I think years from now we will be looking at NHS staff who did not get the vaccine when they could have the same way we now look at surgeons who do not wash their hands before surgery. We don't argue that surgeons have unwashed children at home, or numerous unwashed surfaces on the way to work. We expect them to do as much as they can.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro - statistically speaking the risks will be lower if the medical secretary is vaccinated. The children cannot be at present; the medical secretary choses not to be.

We’re talking about a medical secretary, not a surgeon.

@MareofBeasttown

I think years from now we will be looking at NHS staff who did not get the vaccine when they could have the same way we now look at surgeons who do not wash their hands before surgery. We don't argue that surgeons have unwashed children at home, or numerous unwashed surfaces on the way to work. We expect them to do as much as they can.

Lol. Yes, the reality is a bit different. The inside of an NHS staff kitchen.... Well.... Maybe that's where COVID came from tbh.

I'm sure they scrub up properly for surgery but if you think they're "on it" all the time, you are mistaken.

They're certainly not going to avoid their own children.

The children cannot be at present; the medical secretary choses not to be.

You do realise that the virus doesn’t know this.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Getyourarseofffthequattro - statistically speaking the risks will be lower if the medical secretary is vaccinated. The children cannot be at present; the medical secretary choses not to be.[/quote]
Explain your stats then?

Because I can't see how sharing a house with someone unvaccinated is less risky than potentially walking into an office with one 2m apart with a mask on for maybe an hour a day max.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro I refer you to the OP’s post above, where she confirms my suspicions of being a conspiracy theorist by talking about a conspiracy, and referencing Bill Gates.

You will note that I didn’t say anything to discredit the possibility that this was man-made - I simply noted that the only people I heard heard broadcasting that view were conspiracy theorists. And I have now been proven right in this instance.

Glad you asked how I’m confident in my figures and stats. I’m confident because theyre from the ONS, WHO and the like. I’ve access the raw ONS data sheets (I’m a data geek by trade) and can verifiably parse the data myself and see exactly what the information being served is based on.

This is exactly what I’m talking about when I say the erosion of trust in genuine expertise is really really dangerous. I’m sure you’re an incredibly sane, normal person (I mean that) and yet you’ve been reduced to using the word ‘perrrlease’ and calling people ‘sheep’ for doing something as basic as getting vaccinated because it’s recommended by just about every credible and accredited expert on virology there is, independent or otherwise.

Think back 10 years and ask if you 19 years ago would be on the same side of this debate as you are now. Would 10 year ago you give up a job you don’t want to lose because you don’t want to have an undeniably safe vaccine? Would you care? Did you care about The HPV vaccines in all young women or the TB jab? Did you come on a forum and act like you are now in objection? Ask yourself many, many questions about why you’re behaving the way you are right now if the answer to those is no.

Doesn't matter. She is in contact with vulnerable people with low immunity. And I bet she will still be moaning next year, or the year after next, when the surgeon's hypothetical unvaxxed children below 12 are vaxxed. As eventually everyone will be.