To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@RubyTuesday70

I had both of my vaccines, and am still suffering from side effects nearly 6 months on. I actually thought that I'd broken my hip at one point because the pain in my joints was so bad. My GP couldn't have been less interested if they'd tried, and all I've been able to do is report on the Yellow card scheme. There is no way in hell I'm having any booster or form of further vaccination.

It's a horribly dangerous precedent to set to remove personal choice.

Ruby I'm very similar. I'm still struggling with adverse affects of the jabs months later. I work in healthcare although I'm maternity leave and I'm thinking I'll have to leave my job (if I'm ever well enough again to go back to work) as I can't contemplate a booster. I'm still so unwell.

Although I'm massively pro-vaccine, I don't really believe in anyone being forced to have it, I don't think that's the way to persuade people. I think vaccine passports as they have in France are OK, but denying things like schooling is not. But I'm sorry OP, I just don't think you'll get anywhere trying to fight this. I sympathise with your predicament, noone enjoys leaving a job they're happy in, but I don't think you're likely to win a legal case. You're not really being forced to have a vaccine, you could get another job, and as difficult as that may be it's not discriminatory. Your best course of action is probably just to have the vaccine.

Also OP ask the NHS to guarantee 100 % nothing will happen to you. I bet they will not assume any responsibility for any damaged, death or consequences from the vaccine. I bet they will ask you to sign a disclaimer that they will not take responsibility.

@Iheartmysmart

As previously mentioned I’m doubly vaccinated and don’t want to get into that side of the argument. But for those telling the OP to quit and work elsewhere I’m struggling to comprehend how the NHS is going to recruit to these roles going forward. For example well known supermarket chain advertising for a senior admin role locally at a starting salary of £31K vs NHS PA role at £23K. Not difficult to guess which one is more likely to attract the most applicants especially when the hospital one doesn’t even offer parking and it’s a bugger to get to on public transport.

Your argument only works if the majority of NHS staff felt like the OP, but the reality is that they don't. Medics are overwhelmingly likely to be vaccinated, and while rates may be lower in support staff they are not going to be high enough that the NHS is going to struggle to recruit. In fact, I'd say anyone suggesting this is the case is likely to an antivaxxer trying to fearmonger.

I work for the health service and before I was employed I had to have a health check in which I had to get some vaccines I wasn’t up to speed with (not an anti Vaxer just hadn’t what they needed for my job) it really was no big deal to me. I accepted it was logical I get the vaccines as I was potentially going to be exposed in my line of work. The same logic applies to this one. Also just to point out, if you are going to suffer from vaccine issues, it tends to manifest early on, not ten years later or even a year later. This has been the case with vaccines in the past also. You might get unlucky and react in some horrendous way early on, although not likely, but I don’t believe you need to worry about far into the future. So with this in mind, it has had ample research behind it at this point in the pandemic. If you chose a career in the health service in particular , you should meet the requirements for that role as specified by your employer. Given that you are a higher risk of transmitting the virus without the vaccine, and presumably interact with some people of some kind, it is not unreasonable to be required to have it. Personally I support nhs making it mandatory.

[quote Gingernaut]@Getyourarseofffthequattro, really?

Where do you work?

I've never worked in patient facing environments and have always had to produce my vaccination certificates.

I even had to have my MMR jabs, as I tested negative for mumps antibodies.

I've recently got a job in a clerical office and all my vaccinations were asked for as a condition of employment.[/quote]
For an NHS trust. I previously worked for a different one. I've never had to show proof of any vaccinations, although I have had them all.

Tbh even though I am jabbed I am with you on the personal autonomy point.

But the NHS didnt stand up for the carers. So unfortunately your on your own now. Thankfully you have a stronger union than us so goodluck.

@fournonblondes

Also OP ask the NHS to guarantee 100 % nothing will happen to you. I bet they will not assume any responsibility for any damaged, death or consequences from the vaccine. I bet they will ask you to sign a disclaimer that they will not take responsibility.

She could also ask them to guarantee 100% that her PC won't explode, or that her pen won't shatter and jab her in the eye, or that she won't catch an easily preventable communicable disease from a patient.

Loads of people are FORCED to have a vaccination. Most patient facing NHS have to have MMR and Hep B &C etc, most police and miltary do as well. People who work overseas, thousands of people. You can have the vaccination or find another job. You can give covid to someone you see in hospital who then sees patients and passes it on

@Yummymummy2020
Great post.

I'm old, I've had the flu vaccine for a few years now and I suffer with it... 24 hours of feeling like shit, but I want it. I lived through polio and had a friend who is disabled from it, I had mumps as a child and I was really really poorly, ditto measles, german measles etc.

I've just had my booster, and had been checking endlessly online to get it. Last night at 11pm it let me book, I got it today 4 hours ago. Vaccines work.

Nothing, @murcimari? Come one, you accused me of misinformation and made some pretty outlandish claims about the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Do you have anything to back that up? I shared (some of) the sources that back up my statements.

Your argument only works if the majority of NHS staff felt like the OP, but the reality is that they don't. Medics are overwhelmingly likely to be vaccinated, and while rates may be lower in support staff they are not going to be high enough that the NHS is going to struggle to recruit. In fact, I'd say anyone suggesting this is the case is likely to an antivaxxer trying to fearmonger.

Recruitment in the NHS is really difficult. We're really struggling. I'm very pro vaxx, I've had 3 covid and my flu. I think the OP should have their vaccine but respect their right not to. I've got 2 staff members in my team who will not get the vaccine (both for different reasons), when you add that to my 3 current vacancies, I'll be nearly 50% staff down. At what point is my team unsafe? At what point do I have to close my doors to patients? We've done 3 rounds of recruitment in 4 months and got 0 new starters out of 21 total applicants.

@LMonkey

Watch this, it might help you.

@Onandoff

EVERY SINGLE ONE of the patients dying in the ITU where I work is unvaccinated. Age range is typically 30-60 in this wave. The treatment is horrific. Those who survive are being left with terrible disability, we’ve had to deliver pregnant women who then die or are left with post partum and post ITU psychosis. I just don’t understand how people can think the risks of vaccination are higher than this.

You have described an acquaintance. She was delivered early and then in a coma, woke up with psychosis and had to learn to use her limbs again, now using a wheelchair. Didn’t want the vaccine whilst pregnant.

@Iheartmysmart

As previously mentioned I’m doubly vaccinated and don’t want to get into that side of the argument. But for those telling the OP to quit and work elsewhere I’m struggling to comprehend how the NHS is going to recruit to these roles going forward. For example well known supermarket chain advertising for a senior admin role locally at a starting salary of £31K vs NHS PA role at £23K. Not difficult to guess which one is more likely to attract the most applicants especially when the hospital one doesn’t even offer parking and it’s a bugger to get to on public transport.

My point exactly. Many of us are fucking sick of doing 2 and 3 jobs for no extra pay because we just don't have the staff. I am vaccinated, I would encourage anyone to get vaccinated on balance of risks (although, to be fair I don't feel particularly at risk but I do want to go abroad!) But I would much rather we had unvaccinated staff than no staff at all. Because what will happen to us remaining staff? We will leave. Well go off sick or we'll end up with enormous mental health problems.

Does that make for a brilliant NHS?

No dear reader, it does not.

Telling people to leave is the last bloody thing we need.

Oh shut up @SaskiaRembrandt you clearly don't know what you're on about. We struggle to recruit ANYWAY.

I'm not an anti vaxxer, I've had all my vaccines.

MrsTulipTattsyrup

SarahBop
All the pro-vax who are on about taking it in order to keep the strain off the NHS...I take it none of you eat fatty foods/smoke or drink alcohol, no?

Oh ffs, how many times do we have to answer this? YOU CAN’T KILL SOMEONE ELSE BY EATING TOO MANY CHIPS YOURSELF.

No, but you can put the NHS under immense strain by doing those things.

@fournonblondes

Why people go on about other vaccines that were approved decades ago. You are a entitled to want wait about this experimental vaccine.

Oh dear - please do a bit of research before calling it ‘experimental’

Anti vaxxers to me are the same as the men who used to hide and not go to the war, when all other men had to leave their families to fight.

And you to me are the same as the bullies who used to hand out the white feathers. Shaming people who don't agree with you is not on, surely?

I am literally not on any social media

Well, um, this is social media,

I’m vaccinated and correct me if im wrong but was the data not saying that the vaccine only protects the person themselves from the symptoms if they should catch covid? It doesn’t protect them from catching it or passing it on to others? Just struggling with the angle of how someone is putting their patients at risk by not being vaccinated if they can still have and pass on covid with the vaccine 🤔

Personally if I worked for the NHS I’d want to be vaccinated due to the exposure you might have but I do get that some people don’t want to be, the same way I didn’t when I was pregnant due to many unknowns. I do think the majority of people should get the vaccine if it’s the only way through this but people kind of are being forced if the alternative option is have no job when that’s what they’re qualified/skilled in 😕

@RacketeerRalph

Your argument only works if the majority of NHS staff felt like the OP, but the reality is that they don't. Medics are overwhelmingly likely to be vaccinated, and while rates may be lower in support staff they are not going to be high enough that the NHS is going to struggle to recruit. In fact, I'd say anyone suggesting this is the case is likely to an antivaxxer trying to fearmonger.

Recruitment in the NHS is really difficult. We're really struggling. I'm very pro vaxx, I've had 3 covid and my flu. I think the OP should have their vaccine but respect their right not to. I've got 2 staff members in my team who will not get the vaccine (both for different reasons), when you add that to my 3 current vacancies, I'll be nearly 50% staff down. At what point is my team unsafe? At what point do I have to close my doors to patients? We've done 3 rounds of recruitment in 4 months and got 0 new starters out of 21 total applicants.

I know no one who works in the NHS who respects anti-vaxxers. I also no one who works in the NHS who is a vaccine refuser.

The NHS may face recruitment issues but that is not because of beliefs about vaccination. And it's unusual for someone who claims to be an NHS employee to be ambivalent about vaccine take up, in fact, amongst medics it's very. very unusual. Maybe more common in support staff?

@Bluntness100

I am literally not on any social media

Well, um, this is social media,

No, it's a forum, not social media.

Yes @SaskiaRembrandt the NHS is a hive mind.

@Lauraa7

Why are they waiting until April. I’m in Melbourne and it is already mandatory here for a number of industries. You do have a choice if you have the jab, no one is making you

Also in Melbourne, after all the alarm about losing people in the health system if there was mandatory jab’s, there were very few people who decided to leave their jobs rather then get vaccinated. What it means is that the health system no longer has to furlough as many staff.

I work with predominately unvaccinated involuntary patients, having the staff vaccinated means that they are nor having to be restricted as much which is good