To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

A lot of care home staff who don't want the vaccine have gone to the NHS as HCA's......

Staffing in the sector (Health and Social Care) is at critical levels. I'm pro vaccine but am torn as know that so many staff refuse to have it which will exacerbate the staffing issue affecting care for all.

I find the responses here eye opening. I am fully vaccinated but I am emphatically against mandated vaccines.
And for those saying OP does have a choice, it's not a freely made choice without coercion is it?
And saying that would only apply to new applicants for a job, not someone already in position. It's get vaccinated or be sacked? What kind of choice is that?

Why are they endangering patients when they can still catch it and spread when vaccinated anyway?

Much lower risk of catching (means less risk of transmitting to others) and potentially significantly lower secondary transmission risk.

This isn’t really all that hard.

No one is forcing you. Not sure of your working enviroment, but as a med sec, I was regularly walking the corridors and had regular close contact with the consultant I worked for, as well House Officers, Registrar (all of whom constantly have face to face with patients) and other medical secretaries in the same situation.

I am going to be honest here... anti vaxers do my head in. I know what vaccines have brought to people my age.

I have a friend.... one of the last ones to suffer from polio, before obligatory vaccines(I'm old)
She has a withered leg (don't flame me for this, this is what it is).

She was on the cusp.

#havethe vaccine

@Getyourarseofffthequattro, really?

Where do you work?

I've never worked in patient facing environments and have always had to produce my vaccination certificates.

I even had to have my MMR jabs, as I tested negative for mumps antibodies.

I've recently got a job in a clerical office and all my vaccinations were asked for as a condition of employment.

2020 - Clap for the NHS workers
2021 - Get jabbed or lose your job

I don't think people should be forced to have the vaccine. In my job people have to unless they're exempt. It will become a choice of have it or leave your job though I would think.

@weresupermonsters

I find the responses here eye opening. I am fully vaccinated but I am emphatically against mandated vaccines. And for those saying OP does have a choice, it's not a freely made choice without coercion is it? And saying that would only apply to new applicants for a job, not someone already in position. It's get vaccinated or be sacked? What kind of choice is that?

They have to treat all the new employees the same no matter date you started within NHS. Rules change constantly in companies and you have to comply with policy. Its not just NHS.. other companies are asking about your vaccine status too on applications forms.

OPS choice is impacting others though so no it's not that freely!

@TeresaGreener

2020 - Clap for the NHS workers 2021 - Get jabbed or lose your job

2020 - Clap for the NHS workers 2021 - NHS workers are Nazis according to anti-vaxxers

www.nursingtimes.net/news/coronavirus/police-investigating-struck-off-anti-vax-nurse-after-likening-nhs-staff-to-nazis-26-07-2021/

No idea why people get themselves in a flap about how the vaccine 'doesn't stop transmission', and then use that as an excuse or 'proof' it 'doesn't work'.

Neither does the chicken pox vaccine, just FYI. If you've been vaxxed and catch CP, you're still contagious (with no or next to no symptoms) and spread it around. And hopefully you then get a much milder case.

Never heard of the CP vax getting this much flack though.

@SarahBop

Honestly I am saddened that people think this is okay/acceptable.

You honestly think someone should lose their rights to body autonomy? You think someone should lose their freedoms/human rights/a job they're good at and passionate about because they refuse to undergo a medical procedure? Really?

Bear in mind the government make millions of pounds in profit from selling this drug....do they really have peoples safety as a first priority??

Well said. 👏

Op can I ask have you had other vaccines?

I hear a lot of people say there's no long term data - but there isn't for most new vaccines. I don't remember this uproar about data when the meningitis vaccine became available or the HPV jab?

When vaccines become licensed there isn't 10, 20 year data available!

What about other medicines do you check the data for all the possible side effects ever recorded?

@Chloemol

You are not being forced to do anything.

You are more than welcome to find a job somewhere else

Having the vaccine is exactly the same as saying you need a clean drivers licence to do a job, when you don’t have one, or yo7 need a certain qualification

If you don’t meet the criteria you look elsewhere

What a load of crap. Having a clean driving licence is not a medical procedure, having a vaccine is.

I felt like you at first and then I realised I was being a coward. Are you happy the world is opening up again? You know it wouldnt be happening if 92% of us hadn’t been vaccinated. We would either be on full lockdown or would have 1000s of deaths everyday. The nhs would have collapsed, 911 wouldn’t answer you if you had an emergency. Because of us you get your freedom. Anti vaxxers to me are the same as the men who used to hide and not go to the war, when all other men had to leave their families to fight.

I know we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine, it does worry me but what was the other option. Let everyone else do it and have me hoping that everyone else gets it so we get our freedoms back. Why are you so special that you let everyone else take the risk?

Your objections to the vaccine _

"There are unarguably reasons as to why we should question any vaccine, especially this one. This is a vaccine which was rushed. There's no long term data for it. We have no idea what effect it will have on peoples bodies 10, 15, 20 years down the line. "

We dont know th long term impact of a noval disease either - but do already know that covid is having a long term impact even on people who thought they had it mildy. I could quote a number of studies saying that - but it wouldnt make any difference would it?

"WE KNOW people have died from blood clots. I know 2 people myself. Fit , healthy, young people. WE KNOW it can cause myocarditis in younger people. "

We know a lot of people have died of covid blood clots and some of them were young and healthy too. My child was friends with one who went in the first wave, we really wish he'd had the chance of a vaccine. We also know that covid causes myocariditis - and in higher numbers than the tiny vaccine risk.

"It's also clear as bloody day THAT IT DOES NOT STOP TRANSMISSION. If people are happy to accept it, to protect THEMSELVES from extreme disease, then by all means have it. That's your choice.I dont want it."

Noit doesnt stop transmission entirely, just reduces it as you are less likely to catch covid and are infectious for a shorter period.

You must know you are being utterly and completely irrational. As someone said right back at the start it's aproportionate means to an end. Your only hope of challenging it would be if you'd had covid already - and as you can get reinfected that probably wouldnt run either.

I dont like people feeling coerced into having a vaccine bit I also dont like the NHS having to employ the irrational.

You know that many people like you have changed their minds, some unfortunately too late to do them any good. www.sorryantivaxxer.com/
You can still change your mind, do the sensible thing and get your vaccinations.

You honestly think someone should lose their rights to body autonomy? You think someone should lose their freedoms/human rights/a job they're good at and passionate about because they refuse to undergo a medical procedure? Really?

Bear in mind the government make millions of pounds in profit from selling this drug....do they really have peoples safety as a first priority??

People in professional jobs already make all sorts of concessions in order to keep their jobs, including being vaccinated.

The government don't make a penny from vaccines because they don't develop or manufacture them.

There are already plenty of people working in the NHS who have to have certain vaccines in order to be allowed to work. This is a logical extension of that. Your reasons are all the ones you see on social media, especially the bollocks about it being rushed. The NHS Trust I work in was one of the trial sites for the vaccines. I worked in health research for 12 years and I can tell you now, no steps in the process were skipped.

All the side effects of the vaccines are effects which also come with COVID - and the risk of these effects when you get COVID are several orders of magnitude higher.

You have no valid reason for not wanting the vaccine, so look for another job. You're getting plenty of warning. I have no time for people like you.

Sounds like your livelihood depends on it. Ignoring the benefits to anyone else, the risk/benefit balance suggests you should just bloody well get on and be vaccinated.

OK I need to keep this simple.

Why oh why would you not get vaccinated if you know that 90% of people in ICU aren't vaccinated?

It's beyond me, it really is

How are we still debating this nearly 2 years into a pandemic and arguing that because vaccines don't stop transmission entirely, they are useless?

Get the vaccine and don’t be so stupid.

@weresupermonsters

I find the responses here eye opening. I am fully vaccinated but I am emphatically against mandated vaccines. And for those saying OP does have a choice, it's not a freely made choice without coercion is it? And saying that would only apply to new applicants for a job, not someone already in position. It's get vaccinated or be sacked? What kind of choice is that?

This is where I sit too!

Understandably covid has shaken us all, but to be so comfortable with the government removing bodily autonomy and enforcing unwanted medical procedures sets a dangerous precedent.

In an ideal world I would've loved not to been in a pandemic and felt that the only right thing was to take the vaccine. I work in a patient facing role where to do my work I can't wear a mask and neither can my clients (Autism assessments so really need to see their face and them me). My patients have already waiting 4 plus years for assessment, which was delayed for the reasons above- they need a diagnosis now (well years ago but anyway). I didn't take it to protect myself necessarily (I'm a young healthy person and not frightened of Covid). I took it to protect my patients and to be able to do my job.

My dm is a massive anti-vaxxer. I have asked her the question- how do you think we were going to claw our way out of this pandemic without a vaccine? No answer.

As previously mentioned I’m doubly vaccinated and don’t want to get into that side of the argument. But for those telling the OP to quit and work elsewhere I’m struggling to comprehend how the NHS is going to recruit to these roles going forward. For example well known supermarket chain advertising for a senior admin role locally at a starting salary of £31K vs NHS PA role at £23K. Not difficult to guess which one is more likely to attract the most applicants especially when the hospital one doesn’t even offer parking and it’s a bugger to get to on public transport.