To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

I am sorry your trust is still struggling. It definitely varies from trust to trust. We have had major staffing issues for a good couple of years (covid pressure combined with broken promises for bank staff and overtime pay).

Staff employment wise we are just coming out of the other side. It's staff sickness that is causing unsafe staffing levels. So we have the people, but they can't work (covid, viruses going about and stress mostly). However, we are still in Extreme pressures/business continuity and will be absolutely screwed when winter pressures fully hit.

for you and for all NHS staff suffering the same right now!

@LiveForeverHappily I stand corrected! I'll make sure I check the sources are up to date next time (it was from an older article!)

Nobody is forcing you to have a vaccine.

There are a number of compulsory vaccines for my profession (non covid related / pee covid).

Find a different job if you don't like it.

[quote Ghoulette]@Getyourarseofffthequattro

I am sorry your trust is still struggling. It definitely varies from trust to trust. We have had major staffing issues for a good couple of years (covid pressure combined with broken promises for bank staff and overtime pay).

Staff employment wise we are just coming out of the other side. It's staff sickness that is causing unsafe staffing levels. So we have the people, but they can't work (covid, viruses going about and stress mostly). However, we are still in Extreme pressures/business continuity and will be absolutely screwed when winter pressures fully hit.

for you and for all NHS staff suffering the same right now! [/quote]
Thanks! It's admittedly getting quite wearing...

I think with min wage going up it will be even harder, esp for band 2 and 3. Why would you want responsibility when you could do any other admin job for barely any less money (and sometimes more!)

It’s here.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/27/data-israel-covid-booster-shots-standard

‘No hope for humanity’😁 a slight exaggeration surely? Are we in a nuclear winter? Are we in a post apocalypse situation?

I think humanity will be just fine and dandy.

@girlmom21

OP, when I was 12 I was terrified about having the HPV vaccine. Yesterday, I read that it has reduced the chances of getting cervical cancer by 90%.

You have every right to not want the vaccine for whatever reason, but it might just save your life.

As a young healthy female, you are far, far more likely to die from cervical cancer than covid so that's not a particularly strong argument.

I am double jabbed but I also feel that it should not be mandated.

For most hospital and healthcare posts, vaccination records are part of the HR requirement.

TB, diphtheria, pertussis, MMR etc.

What makes this one different?

@Gingernaut

For most hospital and healthcare posts, vaccination records are part of the HR requirement.

TB, diphtheria, pertussis, MMR etc.

What makes this one different?

Not for office staff usually......

Why are they waiting until April. I’m in Melbourne and it is already mandatory here for a number of industries.
You do have a choice if you have the jab, no one is making you

Take it for yourself if not for others, op.

Last week we have had someone we know die from covid, no underlying conditions, early 40s, leaving behind her children. Hadn’t ’got round’ to having the vax 😢

Her young daughter is bereft. Take the vax for the sake of your children op.

@murcimari, can you quote anything I’ve said that is misinformation? Sources would be good.

From the Vaccine Surveillance Report: vaccines reduce infections by 65% (AZ) and 80% (Pfizer); contacts had a 35 to 65% reduced odds of testing positive with the Delta variant compare to contacts of unvaccinated index cases.

On secondary transmission: From the Netherlands

You’ll be aware that the vast majority of cases recently have been in younger teenagers (very slow vaccine rollout) and in the exact demographic of their household contacts (highest risk for secondary transmission.)

Can you provide your sources for the statement that the vaccines do ‘shit all’ to prevent transmission? They’ll need to cover both reduction in infection and reduction in secondary transmission to be accurate.

I’ve provided some of my sources above.

I can remember when people said the same about car seatbelts and motorcycle helmets

No one is forcing you to have a vaccine. Grow up. Either get it or look for another job. You work in an environment that is populated by extremely vulnerable people, if you aren't prepared to make a small concession to protect them you shouldn't working for the NHS.

I have to make concessions to do my job, I don't whine and bleat about it.

With covid, they just skipped the animal testing part

@Ghoulette nope, bollocks. You’re either uneducated or a liar. Tested on ferrets, pigs and non human primates. The unusual thing about the speed of the trials is that a lot of animal testing was carried out in parallel to the first human trials, where as usually the animal trials are a lot earlier, in stages

It's really tough especially because you're in a country that is absolutely pro vaccine (assuming you're in England?). The question is: what are your reasons? If you have experienced strong side effects previously or have been hospitalised due to having the vaccine, you'd be able to get a letter from a doctor that you cannot have it and I am sure that'd be fine.

I didn't like the idea of it but then I've had 2 for my very personal freedom. My family are abroad and I would have to quarantine each time to see them + I don't get vaccinated for myself, I had just turned 30 then, very healthy etc so the likelihood of dying from it or even being hospitalised is very slim but I did it for the greater good.

If you're good at what you're doing, surely you'd find another job in a similar position elsewhere? I am truly sorry you're being put in this position though, it must be very hard. I am wishing you all the best and only you can make a decision here x

Will it mandatory for staff in private healthcare too? If not start applying for jobs in the private sector. FWIW I think it is going to send the NHS downhill very fast as they will lose so much talented and hardworking staff. Mmmm wonder if that is the plan??

@SarahBop

All the pro-vax who are on about taking it in order to keep the strain off the NHS...I take it none of you eat fatty foods/smoke or drink alcohol, no?

Oh ffs, how many times do we have to answer this? YOU CAN’T KILL SOMEONE ELSE BY EATING TOO MANY CHIPS YOURSELF.

@Finknottlesnewt

For someone who works in a responsible job in the NHS I am surprised you have taken your research and subsequent doubts about the vaccine from social media.

Why haven't you looked at actual statistics from PHE ?
I in 5 in ITU with mechanical lung support are pregnant unvaccinated.

There have been NO pregnant unvaccinated women on ventilators between July-October.

Surely those statistics are all you need . ?
If you can't comprehend that - then you n Ed another job .!

Why are you assuming I've got this from social media?? I am literally not on any social media, let alone scouring for info.

@Ontheblink

Will it mandatory for staff in private healthcare too? If not start applying for jobs in the private sector. FWIW I think it is going to send the NHS downhill very fast as they will lose so much talented and hardworking staff. Mmmm wonder if that is the plan??

Of course it will. Private healthcare is a business, and the vast majority of customers are not going to choose unvaccinated medical staff

And I would genuinely rather take my risk with Covid. Each to their own I guess.

Other people would rather not take risks because contracting Covid will kill them. If you choose not to have a vaccination you are a risk to those people, so either get the jab or get another job. You don't get to play fast and loose with other people's lives because of some weird world view.

No unfortunately you and people like you don't have a leg to stand on.
Your beliefs are leaving you behind in this world which is trying to move out of this pandemic.
I hope you can get another job where there's no vaccination requirement but over time there will be fewer options so I'm not sure where that leaves you.

Compulsory vaccines are not a new concept.

It’s been a condition of my profession for many years.
Medics have always had to have vaccines to protect patients.
I really don’t understand why this vaccine is such a big deal for people. I blame the internet & the spreading of false information.
It’s a shame people don’t understand the concept of science & evidence these days. For some reason everyone knows better than highly trained experts.

People also don’t understand that they’re putting others lives at risk if they’re not doing their bit to minimise spread of virus.
Depressing ..

So at the moment unvaccinated people have to quarantine if they come into contact with a person with Covid if t&t ping you. Vaccinated don't. Why should unvaccinated staff get 10 days off purely because they don't want the vaccine. I certainly don't want to pay them for this if it's their choice not to get the vaccine. Aside from that I do think all front facing clinical staff in the NHS and the care sector the vaccine should be compulsory.

@IBelieveInAThingCalledScience

"They'll lose 5 good nurses".

Nope. They're not good nurses if they refuse to be vaccinated and are happy to endanger patients in their care.

Why are they endangering patients when they can still catch it and spread when vaccinated anyway?