To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

[quote murcimari]@Scoutingformygirls - all the other jabs are there to protect patients unlike the C-jab, which doesn't even limit transmission.... totally different situation. I suggest you also look for the interview I mention above[/quote]
Yes, it does limit transmission. It doesn't prevent it but it does reduce it.

you wont lose your job op.
i have no heard that you have to be vaccinated since you are not a front line worker.
and i think i would have heard

@SliceOfCakeCupOfTea

The thing is, you're not being forced. You're being told that to continue working for that company you need to be vaccinated. So you are free to leave and remain unvaccinated if you want.

When I worked on cruise ships I had to have a whole host of vaccines before I could join the ship. If I refused I wouldn't have been able to work there.

Exactly!

I visited Kenya a few years ago, and having a yellow fever vaccine was required. My choice for both.

at work i started on certain terms and conditions and continue on those. New employees start on different terms and have the choice to accept the role. my employer would very much like existing staff to change terms but we can't be forced. Pretty sure your terms may be similar and they may only be able to make it mandatory for new contracts.

the government will not make it compulsory, the nhs itself will not make it compulsory and nor will your hospital

I think the reason you are being given so much notice is so that you have plenty of time to apply for other jobs if you choose not to have the vaccine.

Forcing you to have it would involve a much shorter timescale.

You have two very clear options… 🤷‍♀️

Can you share why are you not having the vaccine? I agree people should not be forced but you work for the NHS. I am curious.

@withlotsoflove

Surely the difference is that the op already has her job. Other vaccines that are required( for other roles) are made known before applying. ie : giving a choice. This situation has removed all choice, as if she doesn’t comply she has no job!

And she's worked that job for 10 years and paid into her pension for those years.

I am a retired med sec and there are so many vacancies for that role in the NHS that I get emails every day asking me to go fill in the gaps. The NHS cannot afford to lose someone with 10 years experience for the sake of a jab that doesn't even prevent transmission.

@fournonblondes

Can you share why are you not having the vaccine? I agree people should not be forced but you work for the NHS. I am curious.

She already has , read the thread

@LMonkey I admit that I had some nervousness about the vaccine too.

The ONS figures show that there have been 9 deaths in the UK where the vaccine contributed and 5 where the vaccine was the underlying cause.

blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

Seeing the analysis here gave me some reassurance: it is true that there have been deaths in the UK as a result of the vaccine, and seeing the data in black-and-white and expressed unemotionally just gave me a sense of control, that I knew what I was getting into. So I got vaccinated (and worried that every headache twinge was a clot for a week or so, and had to give myself a talking to about the overwhelming probability of it being just a headache!)

I feel for you - it must be a difficult choice to make, and a source of stress.

Oh dear.
At least this pandemic is identifying the people who should not be working in the NHS.
Every cloud.....

That’s fine. Take the risk. But find another job

For someone who works in a responsible job in the NHS I am surprised you have taken your research and subsequent doubts about the vaccine from social media.

Why haven't you looked at actual statistics from PHE ?
I in 5 in ITU with mechanical lung support are pregnant unvaccinated.

There have been NO pregnant unvaccinated women on ventilators between July-October.

Surely those statistics are all you need . ?
If you can't comprehend that - then you n Ed another job .!

We’ve lost a few people at work (US based customers at work) who have refused the mandatory vaccine under Biden’s presidential order. They were all complaining about it, but really it’s the same as the NHS making it compulsory.

Nobody is being forcibly jabbed against their will. Everyone has a choice. Choices have consequences.

@LMonkey
There's no long term data for it. We have no idea what effect it will have on peoples bodies 10, 15, 20 years down the line.

But to me, that's a selfish attitude, there always has to be the firsts to trust the vaccines! If everyone felt like that, there would be no cure for chicken pox or mumps or, more recently proven, HPV. What would have happened if people had your attitude in the early days of those vaccines? The scientists did enough research to be reasonably certain that the overall outcome would be a positive one with as few side effects as possible. Yes, there is risk, but, as has been proven, the overall benefit to many outweighs the small risk to a tiny few.

@MrsKeats

Oh dear. At least this pandemic is identifying the people who should not be working in the NHS. Every cloud.....

You obviously have no idea how much medical Sec support the doctors , you won't be happy when your not getting your hospital letter should you ever need it

Did you know when you took the job that there was travel involved to countries that required vaccinations?

Or did they spring it on you after 10 years and say take it or be sacked?

It isn’t me, I was simply asking how you drew the distinction. Thanks.

I don’t think it’s unusual for contractual terms to change during employment and the choice is between accepting the change or accepting redundancy. It’s happened to my husband at least twice in the last decade, including significant pay cuts and variation in location worked. Certainly things that he wouldn’t have taken the job originally with those conditions.

I’ve certainly had roles where international travel became a requirement where it wasn’t originally. If I had refused to travel, I would not have been able to do the job any longer.

Contractual variation isn’t unknown. I am again making no comment about its merits in this situation. (I’m mainly here for the inevitable vaccine misinformation.)

@JassyRadlett

Did you know when you took the job that there was travel involved to countries that required vaccinations?

Or did they spring it on you after 10 years and say take it or be sacked?

It isn’t me, I was simply asking how you drew the distinction. Thanks.

I don’t think it’s unusual for contractual terms to change during employment and the choice is between accepting the change or accepting redundancy. It’s happened to my husband at least twice in the last decade, including significant pay cuts and variation in location worked. Certainly things that he wouldn’t have taken the job originally with those conditions.

I’ve certainly had roles where international travel became a requirement where it wasn’t originally. If I had refused to travel, I would not have been able to do the job any longer.

Contractual variation isn’t unknown. I am again making no comment about its merits in this situation. (I’m mainly here for the inevitable vaccine misinformation.)

It wouldn't be redundancy would it? It would be getting sacked.

@LMonkey

17:30Muchtoomuchtodo

@LMonkey, Can you tell us more about your reasons for not having the vaccine?

There are unarguably reasons as to why we should question any vaccine, especially this one. This is a vaccine which was rushed. There's no long term data for it. We have no idea what effect it will have on peoples bodies 10, 15, 20 years down the line. WE KNOW people have died from blood clots. I know 2 people myself. Fit , healthy, young people. WE KNOW it can cause myocarditis in younger people. It's also clear as bloody day THAT IT DOES NOT STOP TRANSMISSION. If people are happy to accept it, to protect THEMSELVES from extreme disease, then by all means have it. That's your choice.I dont want it.

For someone who works for the NHS you seem depressingly uneducated about the risks of the vaccine vs not having it and catching covid.

What are people on about that the vaccine won’t help protect others? If you have a much reduced chance of catching covid due to the vaccine then this will help protect others. You can’t transmit something you don’t have.

Honestly some people are going on like the vaccines don’t work.

@Iheartmysmart

It’s going to be interesting how this plays out for non medical NHS staff, especially in admin roles. There are so many of these jobs around at the moment and it’s not like the NHS pay terribly well so are hardly going to attract applicants with monetary reward. I got made redundant last week so have been looking at PA/admin jobs, anything in NHS was a good £5k below comparable roles. Add in compulsory vaccinations and they really aren’t an attractive employer. I’m doubly vaccinated by the way.

I suspect the “monetary reward” comes in the form of the lovely gold standard pension nhs staff get at the end of it all.

I had both of my vaccines, and am still suffering from side effects nearly 6 months on. I actually thought that I'd broken my hip at one point because the pain in my joints was so bad. My GP couldn't have been less interested if they'd tried, and all I've been able to do is report on the Yellow card scheme. There is no way in hell I'm having any booster or form of further vaccination.

It's a horribly dangerous precedent to set to remove personal choice.

I am aware that people who are vaccinated still get covid, however 20% of those in hospital are unvaccinated pregnant woman. My DH is in the vulnerable /shielding group he was in full lockdown and ending up picking up covid in hospital and it nearly killed him. If your more likely to catch covid in a hospital setting it seems sensible folks working in it get vaccinated. My DH is a consultant and nearly died, my close consultant colleague did die of covid. The importance of vaccinations is clear to me when your dealing with people at their most vulnerable...my DS is fully vaccinated and spent the weekend with his cousin a few months ago and on cousins return was positive of covid. My DS remained negative throughout....

I dont think for a minute that you will be forced to have a vaccine as that is a personal choice and would be surprised to hear of anyone being sacked. if your patient facing and refuse the vaccine they will likely redploy to a non patient facing role