Disciplinary over Tweets - I need a hand hold

[BelgianFudge]

Does anyone have any experience of facing disciplinary over getting into a twitter spat? Nothing to do with the employer, but someone has sent screenshots to them and disciplinary action has been initiated.

Sorry for scant detail but I'm understandably worried about revealing much.

It's the "aggressive...sweary....dickhead" bit which is getting him into trouble. I don't really think his political opinion comes into it. It's that which is bringing the company into disrepute. He's not being respectable of other people's opinions or political beliefs.

Yes and no - certainly the way he has portrayed himself is what might bring the company into disrepute. But during his investigation interview, they questioned him on his political opinions and said that it reflected badly on their government client if he expresses dislike for the Conservative govt.

What was on his old Twitter account out of interest??

The same stuff. The majority of their complaint concerned his old twitter account.

To be honest if I had a colleague who was aggressively mouthing off about politics and especially being rude about those who hold the opposite political view then I wouldn't be impressed either. (On the point of Brexit the Remain view was the the MINORITY after all!!)

Yeah me neither. But would you choose to seek out their twitter feed, choose to read it, and then consider you were harrassed?

There are ways of expressing yourself and putting a mature argument across....and then it seems there is your husband......

Yes. He has been a twat.

@Justcallmecaptainobvious

Don’t disappear down the rabbit hole of philosophical beliefs and protected characteristics.

If it were my DH I’d get him to give himself a bloody good talking to write a letter of apology. I wouldn’t save it for the meetings. The company want to know that he knows he’s been an idiot and they want to be 100% sure he’s not going to do it again.

Sometimes it comes down to: do you want to be right, or do you want to keep your job?

I agree. He's waiting for advice from his Union but I think he should do this yes.

I warned him repeatedly not to do it.

He is mortified

Important to note though that he's mortified because he was found out and might be sacked, not because of what he was doing. He would have stopped when his behaviour was pointed out if he was sorry for doing it.

Also worth considering the implications if he was politically far right leaning and pro-brexit rather than, far left. Far right political beliefs could be seen as implied racism even if not directly racist in what is actually said. The left/right comparison is important here, for context. Social media is generally more accepting of left leaning politics. But extreme views on either side could be consided equally as repugnant.

Just because it's far left doesn't make it any more acceptable than far righters saying "Get all the foreigners out" (which is easier to see as harassment in the workplace)

@PinkSnowAndStars

How did they get hold of the old Twitter though? Trumps account has been banned and I can’t see any of his old posts. (I only searched him off the back of this thread!)

Did they already have the information? Before it was banned?

I have no idea.

We can't see his old Twitter. They have photos of it on a screen (as in, not screenshots, an actual photo of a computer screen showing it) which I think must be evidence that they had it from before it was suspended.

Which means they already had the information for months and did nothing.

Just because it's far left doesn't make it any more acceptable than far righters saying "Get all the foreigners out" (which is easier to see as harassment in the workplace)

True. But a far right view could conceivably be directed against individuals - 'foreigners' etc. Whereas what DH has been doing is telling people they are wrong for believing in Brexit, and slagging off PM and other members of the Govt.

In the discipinary hearing he should get a hearing manager that isn’t connected to the case. They are there to understand if there is reasonable belief that your DH did this and if it contravenes their social media policy.

Make sure he takes a representative in with him and explains his mental health issues. This is the meeting to be really sorry in and to highlight his good character and how long he’s worked for company, that’s he’s deleted his social media accounts etc

Hopefully he will get an understanding one, although it sounds like there is reasonable belief he did this there are mitigating factors.

However, one incident related to harrassment by his boss - which he did raise. His boss claimed in his interview that he had had to have a word with DH recently about his behaviour - when in fact the meeting he refers to was called by DH in relation to his boss' harrassment of him. We have email evidence of this.

I’d guess this is the issue. Your dh has previously accused his boss of harrassment? I’m assuming they’re now looking for any excuse to get rid.

Yes he's not denying he did it - the evidence is clear.

There are mitigating factors, which he will present. And he is very embarrassed and contrite.

But also I think their allegation of him being linked to the company is tenuous, and their allegation of harrassment is absurd. So they need to be challenged on that.

Do you think they could be challenged on how vague their social media policy is? It doesn't say you can't express political views.

He has a representative from the Union going with him.

I’d guess this is the issue. Your dh has previously accused his boss of harrassment? I’m assuming they’re now looking for any excuse to get rid.

He didn't accuse his boss of harrassment, but he challenged his boss on something he did which was discriminatory - he wrote an email subtly mocking DH and accidentally sent it to all staff - and his boss called a meeting to discuss it and apologise. It was entirely his boss' fault.

At the begining of your thread I thought he was being treated harshly.

From the enormous drip feed regarding his prior Twitter account and his Facebook account I think you are minimising.

You now cannot know he won't do this again. Losing a previous Twitter account didn't stop him; being bollocked over Facebook didn't stop him.

Unfortunately for you, I think they want rid of him and he's given them a ton of ammunition despite many previous warnings.

@FATEdestiny

I warned him repeatedly not to do it.

He is mortified

Important to note though that he's mortified because he was found out and might be sacked, not because of what he was doing. He would have stopped when his behaviour was pointed out if he was sorry for doing it.

Also worth considering the implications if he was politically far right leaning and pro-brexit rather than, far left. Far right political beliefs could be seen as implied racism even if not directly racist in what is actually said. The left/right comparison is important here, for context. Social media is generally more accepting of left leaning politics. But extreme views on either side could be consided equally as repugnant.

Just because it's far left doesn't make it any more acceptable than far righters saying "Get all the foreigners out" (which is easier to see as harassment in the workplace)

I’m sorry, this doesn’t make sense. Being far left is about being more tolerant and inclusive.

And regarding Brexit, Remain is about positive shared values. Brexit is driven largely by xenophobia and racism.

It is like saying committed vegans and committed animal trophy hunters the same! Because, you know, they have strong beliefs.

In your view Bernie Sanders and Trump would be equivalent! 🙄

How long ago was the incident with his boss?

I wonder if the boss wants him out, and this is the ammunition he needed.

Op before your DH goes apologising, get clarity on what is the actual “gross misconduct” he is apologising to his employer for?

You have mentioned that the employer said the gross misconduct is his strong political views as clients may not like it (but I assume they have no evidence of reputation all damage or loss?)

They have mentioned harassment, but again it is very tenuous and his boss has clearly said no one felt harassed.

It is really important to get this wet clearly in writing in case he is dismissed and you seek legal recourse.

Regarding political views, the gov states www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/unfair-dismissals

“Political beliefs and groups
It is not automatically unfair to dismiss someone because of their political beliefs or political groups they belong to, but a tribunal might find this unfair.

There’s no longer a qualifying period for someone going to an employment tribunal if they’ve been dismissed because of political opinions or affiliation. This applies to anyone dismissed from 25 June 2013“

Is the union rep good? Has he shared a strategy with your dh?

@BelgianFudge

I’d guess this is the issue. Your dh has previously accused his boss of harrassment? I’m assuming they’re now looking for any excuse to get rid.

He didn't accuse his boss of harrassment, but he challenged his boss on something he did which was discriminatory - he wrote an email subtly mocking DH and accidentally sent it to all staff - and his boss called a meeting to discuss it and apologise. It was entirely his boss' fault.

Ok, harrassment, challenging discrimination. Whatever....it marked your card and has the potential to bite you on the arse later. I can’t imagine his boss appreciated being challenged. Even his boss’s boss who may have appeared supportive and called a meeting may also have felt your dh wasn’t a team player /was a trouble maker, etc.

I wonder if DH can ask for the investigation report in writing. So far he's had the letter inviting him to the disciplinary interview which sets out the allegations. But it isn't clear whether they're considering Gross misconduct or what course of action they're planning. I guess he'll find out at the interview.

His union rep is excellent, but he hasn't got back to us since DH received the interview letter. So DH is just waiting until he can have a meeting with him

So he was told not to participate in the behaviour (informal warning)

Did it again to a more extreme extent (Twitter suspension)

Twitter incident #2

The pattern is that he doesn’t change his behaviour when consequences are given.

He’s not showing any learning or reflection on past behaviour and the consequences.

Sorry @BelgianFudge but as an HR professional that’s heard over 100 disciplinary hearings in my career he’s going to get dismissed for gross misconduct.

He’s better off resigning.

And deleting as much of the history as he can. Social media searches are carried out by a lot of companies in their recruitment process, even if it’s just a google search by the interviewer.

Ok, harrassment, challenging discrimination. Whatever....it marked your card and has the potential to bite you on the arse later. I can’t imagine his boss appreciated being challenged. Even his boss’s boss who may have appeared supportive and called a meeting may also have felt your dh wasn’t a team player /was a trouble maker, etc

What should he have done when his boss sent a derogatory email to all staff criticising DH? He should have reported it to HR, but he didn't, he just replied to his boss and asked that they sort it out - i.e. he did the friendliest thing.

There is a culture of harrassment at his workplace, and this sort of attitude making people afraid to call it out is exactly why it prevails

Twitter is full of abusive tweets. What on earth was he saying to get himself banned? It must have been really offensive?

Considering the previous history it does come across that your husband is sorry he got caught (again) rather than sorry he did it.

I’m not saying it’s right. I’m in a similar situation and I’m keeping my head down. My ex colleague who spoke up was hounded out.

Twitter is full of abusive tweets. What on earth was he saying to get himself banned? It must have been really offensive?

His account was suspended - he wasn't banned. He doesn't know why - he just got a notification saying it was suspended. I know, he's an idiot. He should have realised he'd been too aggressive and stopped. I honestly don't know why he thought it was ok to carry on, but he did.

@Covidcovid

I’m not saying it’s right. I’m in a similar situation and I’m keeping my head down. My ex colleague who spoke up was hounded out.

Sorry to hear that - sounds stressful. It really isn't fair

Most companies employ people with views that would upset guardian readers. They can't all be sacked, surely?

Hopefully his boss if he is wanting revenge will be happy just with giving him a scare, bit of muscle flexing.

@BelgianFudge I have to ask a tough question, do you think that the anger and argumentative behaviour has occurred in person, as well as online?

I’ll be harsh here because you have to accept that dismissal could happen and be prepared for it: he’s looking like a liability as an employee.

If he sat in front of me at a hearing and the situation is as you present it, regardless of the manager’s behaviour your husband would be dismissed.

You need to either get him signed off for stress at work to delay things while he finds another job and deletes all his social media history; resign; or face up to the reality that he will be sacked.

OP, whatever happens, be proud of your DH (I think it is amazing that he cares enough to challenge Brexiteers). He stood by his principles and removed the reference to the employer in Facebook rather than removing his post. And called out what are pretty appalling aspects of our current political situation in his private time, while staying professional and polite in the workplace.

My DH is similar. Even and polite in the workplace but with strong political views. I would never dream of asking him to dial it back. I love that he feels strongly about issues and calling someone a dickhead is hardly a crime.