City lawyer with toddlers can't cope

[RosieIrene]

I work FT at a city firm and have two dd 1 and 3. Have a full time daily nanny but still can't cope. Work all day, come home and put kids to bed and work all evening to make billable target or have to go to client functions. So stressed out that on weekend just want to sit in garden with kids and do nothing. Can't sleep, can't talk to anyone. How do people manage?

for non-lawyers - what is a psl?
is it similar to a vpl?
or to pfi?

You must be shattered Rosie!

We work until we're old ladies - would a year out really damage your career?

I quit my job in London when i had a baby - I was supposed to go back, but decided i wanted this time. It's such a short time - i will work again, and for years and years - but right now, this is where i want to be - I do freelance work from home to earn money and to keep doing something to challenge myself. (although its the children bit that is the challenge)

If you did decide to give yourself a break, it doesn't mean you're at home forever, just while your children are tiny, waking in the night, getting up at 5.30, needing your attention - in no time at all they're at school and life changes again.

hi dino
How's things? Are you meeting my dh soon for the mysterious handover??

really??

Why?

Think he is expecting one of these
He did look slightly perturbed when I say pls can you meet with my friend dinosaur

Agree with Marina too - good post but it's interesting that she "gave herself permission" to stop expressing at one.

I'm all for bfing but it's interesting that people feel they have to give themselves permission to stop. Ladies, the bf campaign is not aimed at us! We are already bfing!

I heard on the tv this morning that only 14% of the under 20s bf. Amazing. These are the people they are trying to reach.

The overachievers (among whom I count myself ) who would be devastated not to bf, and work full time in an interesting job, and do heuristic play with children and serve only organic food at all times, should perhaps realise that they are already doing enough and that they are not going to go to useless mother hell if they stop bfing.

I got myself into a bit of a state about it last week and then I realised my daughter is 8mo, is thriving and eating everything in sight. She even had garlic breath last night because the nanny gave her a vegetable curry I'd made for me . BF is a tiny part of her life now - and it was time to reprioritise and drop it altogether. Just my experience.

RosieIrene...Hope a new day feels a bit better for you...I most definitely didn't want to imply you are whingeing.I am coping because I am well, have lots of help and back up, feel confident about what I am doing and love my work. That all makes a hell of a diffrerence.....
How is the expressing going ? I also express at work for my 1 year old twins...so perhaps we can share tips/strategies ? If it something you want to continue....it will not be the end of the world if you stopped now,a whole year of breastmilk is a tremendous achievement. Well done.
Also hope very much you find time to go to your GP, and have a frank talk with your DH.
Another poster suggested a night nanny....maybe a very good idea. Also make sure you have enough domestic help....can you outsource anything else ?

Anna....agree working for NHS,( which I normally do ),is a different kind of stress...not the monetary kind,( though you'd be surprised how much doctors have to think about money...or rather the lack of it, scratching around for it, making sure you don't lose 'pots' of it in the next round of cuts etc etc...), but having to make decisions involving risk to people's health and safety does have it's moments...

To clear up...I normally work fulltime as a hospital doctor,( as does DH ), but since nov '06 have been on an academic sabbatical...so currently working slighty shorter hours...still 9-5ish with short 1/2 hour commute by car either end of day. so 'yes' it's much less than RosieIrene stm...back in NHS harness next July though !
BTW, consider myself full time parent AND worker,( as does DH ).

Just wanted to add that cracking the sleep would be the first priority - even SAHM go mad if they're not sleeping - check out the sleep threads here. Aloha used a night nanny for sleep training, and it seemed to work very well on her DD. Also second the expressing - at this stage you could probably keep feeding morning/nights and weekends without drying up, although supply would obviously drop a bit - that's only if you're keen on continuing to BF. And then see how you feel - if you still can't cope, then maybe you need to think about career and what you really want.

RosieIrene I am a partner in a city law firm and my DH works in an investment bank. Our DCs are 3 and 5. My life is more or less on an even keel although sometimes it goes spectacularly pear shaped! Some thoughts

1. Everyone is conflicted about the amount of time they spend with their children - I don't think you ever get to a situation where that goes away.

2. You must get as much help as you can. I have a cleaner twice a week and she also does the ironing. I have my groceries delivered. I have the best nanny in the world. Yes, it is expensive but that is what I use my money for - not cars, or holidays, but making everything easier on a day to day level.

3. You must get some more sleep - it will honestly make everything better. Can you split the night routine with your DH? Personally I would also look at the feeding. I stopped breast feeding both of mine at 7 months when I went back to work: they are extremely healthy children who will eat absolutely anything and are very rarely sick: I do not think I "harmed" them in any way.

4. My DH does 50% of everything that needs doing around the house or with the children. Without that I simply could not cope. He has taken unpaid parental leave before and last week took a day off to volunteer as a parent helper at a class trip to the zoo - and he works at an investment bank that has had more than one high profile "anti-family" discrimination case. But he just does it - and until more men do, nothing will change.

5. Your commute sounds long. We accepted that we needed to live closer to work - if we lived further out we would have a completely different house, but we would never see the children on a daily basis in any real way. Can you use your commute in any way to do some meaningful work etc?

6. I honestly think that you are at the hardest time. It really, really won't be like that for much longer. My second child did not sleep properly and I had many nights up with her and then going into all day meetings. It was grim. It is really loads better now - at 3.6 and 5.6 my children play with each other fantastically well, sleep well, are fairly predictable, are entertaining and good company etc etc.

7. I spend all weekend with them in the garden or the park - not sure what else I would like to be doing!

I am as far removed from life as a lawyer as is possible so can't comment on any of that. But the thing that jumped out in RI's posts is what Elliot said, sleep deprivation.

RI, you posted at gone midnight last night, and would have been up at 5.30/6am with your DD from what you have said AND be up in the night with your other DD. You must be shattered beyond belief, it's hard enough being up in the night without holding down a very full on full time job.

margo, I used that turn of phrase more to try and encourage rosieirene to rethink whether she still needs to express , and as you say, not maybe try to exceed expectations on so many fronts of her busy life. I had no inner conflict at all about stopping on the day

Marina, I hear you!

I "lost" my pump at about 4 months. Horrendous, horrendous thing. Am in awe at those of you who continued to 1 year.

My main thought on reading this thread - women are INCREDIBLE. They work so hard at work and at home and still worry that they should be doing more. The weaker sex? Pah!

Hi RosieIrene

I feel for you, I really do

I was a Marketing Director, I ran a very succesful marketing agency working with extremely high profile clients.

I had a life almost exactly like yours. And my career was part of my identity.

And then I realised I wasn't enjoying it, I wasn't enjoying my child, I didn't actually know him that well actually. I wasn't enjoying my life because it was working out how to fit in one more thing; whether I wished to be away for that weekend.

I think you need to take a good look at your life: what are your priorities? what can you as a family change to make sure you are happy

At the end of the day nobody gives a fig if you're working or not, although it may well seem you cannot be replaced and you'd leave a big hole in the office.. believe me you won't.

Maybe you need to work for your sanity, maybe you need to work to keep the family going.

Maybe you would be happier saying 'fuck it, I'm going to try being a SAHM for 3 months, I can always go back if it doesn't work . but if I don't try it now I'll never get another chance to see if I can be a mummy all the time and enjoy it'

well at least that's what I did .. in June 2002 .. still here .. love it (most of the time) .. feel human ... feel like mummy not stressed out executive !

Twig (ex marketing director)

how about a career break?

Is your dh loving ? surely he realises what a state you are in. Have you explained to him how you feel ?

I am ex-City lawyer. Agree with mozhe that jacking it in is not necessarily the answer for you.

Downshift but keep a toehold. You can gear up again when the children are older, if you want to.

Stay with the same firm, if possible. So you keep your benefits, and is the quickest, least aggravating and drastic way to downshift. More importantly, you are a known quantity, star worker. They will cut a deal with you, but you may need to change roles to get flexibility (eg PSL, internal position). In fact, the law firm I work for as PSL partners. Having a dh who is a partner in the same firm is invaluable for visibility.

Because the firm knows you, you can also go back to fee-earning if and when the time is right, both personal and market-wise.

Agree with saladducks, anchovy and margoandjerry's posts.

BTW, a flexible role was the key to my sanity.

Flexible roles that pay decent money are like golddust. An internal role with the same firm will have a monetary discount built in. But because you are earning so much as a fee-earner, you will still earn many times the national average even discounted parttime.

I don't get out of bed if the monetary rewards are not worth it. Other mums I know who took the SAHM route and now want to get back into work are finding it really tough to find decent jobs that pay well.

You just need the time and space to think - and for your young family to grow up. In a blink, the expressing, bf-ing and sleep issues will be no more. Don't burn your bridges in the meantime.

I know it shouldn't, but flexibility often comes at a cost and you have to decide what you don't mind compromising on. I don't work in the city, but in broadcasting where you have to be seen to be applying for the right kind of jobs, at the right time etc but I have chosen to stay making the kind of programmes I like, with people who are more friends than colleagues, and have worked 3 days a week since my daughters were born.

I don't earn anything like what I could but am happy to plod a bit in an interesting, fairly stimulating job, and have eased off a lot of other commitments in the last few months (nursery committee, book groups etc) as I was finding life a bit crowded too.

The "can't sleep" business sounds like me a couple of months back - I went to see my fantastic GP, am now on antidepressants and basically sorting out lots of stuff - I no longer want to be some sort of supermum, but someone who can properly grieve for the loss of my father last year and also look forward to holidays and time with my family.

Making changes, rather than letting things happen to you, is quite liberating.

Sorry haven't read all the thread but I work in the City (finance director) I have moved to a job which is less stressful and less well paid, work 4 days a week and leave every day at 5pm. Career has taken a definite backward step but its worth it as I'm very happy. ANd frankly I didn't really have a choice as I'm a single parent and can;t afford a live in nanny (and wouldn;t want one anyway)

Do you need the money or could you consider a similar move?

Haven't read the whole thread but:

Ex city lawyer - left when the kids were 3 and 1

For us it was the right choice - and DS2 about to start full time school in September so about to deal with the fact that I have been out of the loop for 3 years.

Strangely enough having the kids at school doesn't make it easier, they don't need you less in fact they need you more IMO. I won't be going back to the law or indeed to a full time job - will work part time.

Good luck - the city is a tough place and the partners despite having kids themselves don't really understand as a rule.

I would imagine that once your children stop waking in the night, things will get easier. Inadequate sleep makes even small problems look huge.

Bundle - why do you think that job flexibility shouldn't have associated "costs"?

Flexibility is a benefit you pay for IMO.

Good advice.

And sitting in the garden with children is what weekends are for.