City lawyer with toddlers can't cope

[RosieIrene]

I work FT at a city firm and have two dd 1 and 3. Have a full time daily nanny but still can't cope. Work all day, come home and put kids to bed and work all evening to make billable target or have to go to client functions. So stressed out that on weekend just want to sit in garden with kids and do nothing. Can't sleep, can't talk to anyone. How do people manage?

anna because in the end being "flexible" works both ways. I am flexible for my employer and she gets way more than her money's worth from me. I still do the same job I used to do in 5 days, but in 3 and am much more efficient.

Flexible working is viewed as a way of reducing costs in many organisations (it costs around £10k to pay for a workstation in central london, in my organisation) rather than a true effort to improve everyone's wellbeing (which in turn makes for better productivity, as when you're happy you tend to work better)

also anna, i feel that someone who works 3 days a week should feel able to apply for promotions and advance in their chosen job, but in my profession it just isn't possible, i couldn't fit any more into my packed day at work, therefore couldn't take on any of the "extras" associated with a higher paid job further up the ladder than i am now.

Bundle - are you saying you do five days' work in three days?

this is interestign, the stuff about where your identity comes from

before kids, i was defined by my job

now, i am more defined by my role as mother than by anything else

am very happy with that shift in my life

maybe in the future it'll change again - who knows...

nfk i do it differently. and i hand over stuff to colleagues when necessary but they do sometimes call me at home to check things. i really don't mind that at all.

Bundle - I agree that there is a definite win for employers from flexible workers in productivity terms. I saw lots of female colleagues do "part-time" in my old firm, and they ended up being brilliant at their jobs because they were mentally more available for the work they did do than those who were working flat out.

But I still think that it's quite a big headache for employers (and colleagues - clients don't normally find out IME) to manage lots of workers on different time schedules, and that you have to be prepared to pay for that if you are a flexible worker.

oh Twig what a waste
remember this - you may love your job, but your job does not love you.
your company does not love you.
your clients do not love you.
if you stop doing your job for six months no one will care, really and truly. someone else will take over.
if you get ill, if you lose the plot because you are so stressed out you can't do your job properly, your job doesn't care.
you may love your job, but your work is not you, your identity is not you.
you are a person, not a job description. if it's making you ill, you need to take some time out and reconsider.
I really believe this and I wouldn't say it unless I had seen it happen to many wonderful women and experienced it for myself.
this much I have learned....

Mozhe, sorry but you don't have the luxury of calling yourself a full time parent and a full time worker. Stop kidding yourself. If you want the full time work then you lose time with your children and they lose time with you. I wish you'd face facts and be honest about what you're giving them.

and every woman I know in a high powered job working four days or three days does the same amount of work for significantly less money.

Absolutely dino. That's simply not true Honoria and very offensive to the very many mothers on here who don't have the luxury of being able to afford to give up working full-time outside the home.

Honoria, that's daft. Sorry. Most people are actually living in the real world where FT work is essential and children are undeniable!

I am a single parent so I have no choice about FT work. I also love it. Sometimes though, when I am at home, I am asleep, not actively parenting. Does this make me not a proper mother?

If I was at home more I would also be doing other things like cleaning and cooking. Not actively parenting 24/7

The message I get from talking to DW and other city lawyer mothers is that the effect of P/T is to dramatically reduce pay, reduce career prospects, but actually end up doing very similar hours.
I stick to my position that you should use the money to buy time and rest.

WOHMs - why do you find it "offensive" when it is pointed out that you are not "full-time mothers"?

The way I see it is that we are all 100% mothers, daughters, sisters etc in the biological sense. Nothing can undo our biological tie.

But surely, if you are paying a nursery or childminder or nanny or anyone else to take care of your child while you work outside the home, you are not a full-time parent - you delegate part of your parenting. In the same way as you might delegate part of your housework, or your gardening, or any other of your responsibilities. Obviously the less value-added there is in the role, the less difficult/sensitive it is to delegate it - most people don't have many pangs about delegating the window-cleaning. Delegating care of one's child(ren) is much more sensitive. But you still do so, and in that sense are not a full-time parent in the way many SAHMs are (though not all - some have nannies/au pairs etc).

because it tends to be couched in the language of honoria's post: "be honest about what you're giving them".

Well, here's the honest truth. They get part of my time because the rest of my time is spent earning money so we can live. They also get all of my parenting ability. Not all day because it would be miserable for us (and impractical) but they get my total, undivided attention when I am at home. No friends round, no dinner parties, no husband even to distract me

no one is a "full-time" mother, then, in that sense. ie sleeping in their child's bed, going to the loo with them (once they're able to go themselves), shadowing them around birthday parties, sitting at the back of their classroom in case they "need" you. part of being a parent is actually giving some independence to your children (and yourself) and working part time has enabled me to do that. whether you're out working for someone else, or at home doing life admin/cleaning, your children don't agonise over where you are or what you're doing.

Not sure if I was clear enough in my last post. The point is I don't have a choice. Sometimes I need to work, sleep, eat, go to the loo, shop.

At all of these times, I am not actively being a parent with every fibre of my being in the sense that I am not doing heuristic play and teaching my daughter to read in a creative and loving environment.

But in every other sense I am.

Suspect even the SAHMs are sometimes not parenting when they are at home. Don't know why they are not prepared to be "honest about it"

I agree with DC - or rather that is the route I have gone down: actually the more senior you become the easier it becomes because you can set the agenda to work to your advantage.

I also very much agree with the posts saying look up and take an overview. If you are not going to have another child, this honestly is as bad as it gets. Don't take long term decisions based on how hard it is right now.

The other thing I would say is that giving up completely and then hoping to come back to the same or a similar role is a bit unlikely. Firstly you miss out a lot on changes in law and practice; secondly I think employers are put off by someone who's response to difficulty is to give up (this may be entirely unfair, but that is what they will think). Much better to use your current status to negotiate something a bit better for yourself - a day working from home, a change of focus to a less client facing role or whatever. One of my mates negotiated a 9 day fortnight with no loss of pay, which I think is also a good one.

But this is the medium term. I think in the short term you desparately need some sleep and a short break.

Honoria...losing time !!? I am not losing time I am working to support my family, contribute to society etc....the onlytime I am losing is sitting around watching daytime TV/gossiping at coffee mornings etc...does the o/p really want to exchange her productive working life for that...?

Mozhe why do you say that? I am a SAHM after quitting nhs dentistry and I can assure you I watch no day time tv at all. I have plenty to keep me and the children occupied and stimulated.

I don't have much advise, I think I agree with Marina. Staying at home is certainly not a waste, and it's proved the best choice for many, but personally I don't believe it can be THE SOLUTION. I'm an extremely unhappy sahm, ok, for different reasons I don't have the time to discuss now, but the first thing I'd do RI would be making an appointment with your GP. Sorrry I have to dash, I also don't believe that "delegating" childcare takes much away from being a great parent.

COV, I think I need your prfessional advise... can I ask`~?????

COV...why not dentist AND mother ? There is a shortage of dentists ??