City lawyer with toddlers can't cope

[RosieIrene]

I work FT at a city firm and have two dd 1 and 3. Have a full time daily nanny but still can't cope. Work all day, come home and put kids to bed and work all evening to make billable target or have to go to client functions. So stressed out that on weekend just want to sit in garden with kids and do nothing. Can't sleep, can't talk to anyone. How do people manage?

Sorry took ages to type that post. It was in response to Mozhe and Xenia making us all feel inadequate.

RI - in my honest opinion you are trying to do too much and you are never going to achieve it all. Consequently, you are going to end up feeling like you are not good enough because you are expecting too much from yourself.

I am also a city lawyer (on maternity leave) and I know the hours and the pressure and the stress. In my office you have to be just as good as everyone else despite 2 toddlers at home, no-one has any sympathy for what you are going through. (I can't even imagine the pressure of being married to a partner in the same firm and how that affects your reputation.)

You say that you are still up twice a night and expressing breast milk whilst at the office. I'm impressed that you even make it into the garden by saturday!

I think that you need to assess your priorities very carefully.
Is breastfeeding your highest priority? Could you mix feed? (I really don't want to open a can of worms here but I am trying to ask you what is the MOST important thing for you in your life).

Do you need a sleep nanny to help you get a full night's sleep? (Never under-estimate the power of 8 hours sleep.)

Could you get an in-house secoondment for 6 months to assess whether that would fit in with your life?

Would you consider a 3 or 4 day week (would your firm consider it?)

Would you consider not fee earning? Being a PSL, or doing Business Development?

I hope this is helpful.

RosieIrene - I used to work in a similarly demanding environment (big American strategy consulting firm).

I didn't have children at that point and I already found the workload very demanding. My female colleagues (also friends) with children either went spare from stress and had major breakdowns or ignored their children and/or husbands, with serious consequences. All of them, without exception have left the firm/area of work. They are either SAHMs or divorced, with associated problems.

It is a myth to think that you can have it all and enjoy it all too. Don't feel stressed at this idea, just work out what you want to cut out of your life to make it manageable/enjoyable.

Mozhe - I think you should be a bit more careful when commenting on the stresses associated with an area of work that is very different to your own.

I know lots and lots of hospital doctors, in the NHS, in France, in the US and elsewhere. It is much, much, less stressful to be an NHS doctor than a city lawyer, banker, consultant. The two do not bear comparison.

Rosie - Irene - no one here knows for certain what the best option for you is - working full time/ SAHM/somewhere in between - but I do agree with Mozhe about one point:

you need to go and see your GP. Whether it's depression /stress or a mixture of the two or simply down to lack of sleep, you can't carry on feeling this way, and the feelings you've described concern me.

I think it's also important to point out that many, if not most mothers with a 1 and 3 year old feel completely overwhelmed most of the time. And that is irrespective of whether they are sahm or working full time. I am an architect and I work 3/4 time and feel overwhelmed a lot. But now that my children are 4 and 6, I feel overwhelmed less than I did when they were 1 and 3.
I think that if you can, it would probably make your life easier and more enjoyable if you could at a minimum find a job that is closer to your home. Or something that you could do 3/4 time or something that isn't as high pressure in terms of billable hours.

jajas - why should Mozhe and Xenia make others feel inadequate?

Personally I feel extremely relieved not to be as bound up in competition with others as they are and glad I can take life a bit less seriously and do what I feel like...

Soorrrry but Mozhe DOES NOT WORK FULL TIME...

she is either on maternity leave of working part time lecturing...

MOZHE DON'T KID YOURSELF YOU DON'T WORK FULL TIME!!!

I am an ex City lawyer. If you continue working for the same firm, it will be much easier for you once you can get a full nights sleep. I would suggest that you consider stopping expressing as this is putting more pressure on you. I agree that you should go to the doctors, but would also say that you are at the most difficult stage, age-wise and it will get easier as the baby sleeps more. However, the feeling of constantly juggling and feeling that you are compromising on both your job and your family does not disappear ime.

Is there any chance of going part time even if just for a short period? (although I worked 4 days for a while and it didn't work).

I personally didn't stay in the City, although I do still work (I had 2 years off, but it wasn't really for me). I work part time, in-house and find it much easier. I enjoy my job but still get time to spend at home, which I also enjoy. I still feel that I have a career and another identity which is important to me, (I know this isn't an issue for everyone). my dh is also a lawyer, but not in the same law firm as I was.m

We have a live-in nanny specifically to deal with the issues that RosieIrene is faced with.
Do you have a spare room ?

Since she's a city lawyer, and presumably has a DH who works, then I advise the use of money to get past this.
Extend the nanny's hours, which will cost since she will be outside her comfort zone. If she won't, then get in extra help.
A cleaner needs to be hired, again for a City lawyer, that's an easily bearable expense. (DW is one as well, I know the salary range).

Also, you need to get away from the kids. A long weekend, as long as possible.

Chelseamum - if what you say is indeed true, that Mozhe doesn't work full-time, she is outrageous to make the kind of comments she does...

How a psychiatrist can be so totally out of touch with the lives and stresses of others belies belief...

dh is a lawyer and I work f/t atm too

We have a nanny (p/t as dd at nursery)
A cleaner twice a week
We get our ironing done
We have a dogwalker for the week
My mum babysits on Thursdays
Nanny babysits other times or nursery staff
Have back up that if nanny is sick one of the local nursery staff will bring dd home

Without all this my life would be a misery

As it is it is fine

What also helps is that dh has chosen not to play the partnership game. Obv he has to still sort of pretend but he doesn't put in the hours or the marketing to be made a partner because he wants a life! I earn really good money and we don't need a City Partner's salary to live.

Welcome Anna - now you are learning the real Mozhe situation - as we are all too aware.
F/T my ass.

Rosie, some of the city lawyers I know who have had children and have a commute have decided to switch and practise locally to where they live. Some of them have been able to get part-time work.
The less frenzied lifestyle and better work-life balance for them has definitely been worth the change in career path and drop in income. Is that something you could consider?
I see that your dd2 is one. I work f/t and commute into the City (but not "in the City" IYSWIM) and was expressing for my dd, but I did give myself permission to stop this the day she turned one! Unless there is any allergy reason why your dd2 should not have cow's milk, I honestly think you can congratulate yourself hugely on getting through that year and pack the Medela away (I was very tempted to burn/crush/rip mine to pieces tbh!)
Some of us City working mothers meet for lunch sometimes. We come from a wide variety of working backgrounds (freelance/HE/corporate/legal/accounting) and we are also joined sometimes by people taking a career break from the City too.
Look out for the threads in the Meet-Up sections. We all give each other some much needed moral support
I do hope the GP can help you. Insist on having your iron levels and thyroid functions tested - you could be anaemic or have hypothyroidism and these are both treatable and utterly debilitating for mothers.

Oblomov - I've never been a Mozhe fan, always thought her attitude to others was all about her own ego and attention-seeking... but this is just ridiculous.

this would suggest that Mozhe does work f/t before you all implode with indignation!

I think one major part of your problem is sleep deprivation. You just can't work properly (or even functino really) on broken sleep and early mornings (well, I can't anyway). Can you try to do some sleep training to get dd2 sleeping better?
You are attempting to do more than any normal human can do - you will break if you carry on like this. The upside is that it does get better. However, for now you need to concentrate on priorities - get as much help as possibel in, consider how to cut down the commute, take some action on the sleep front, talk to dh about how to divide things up fairly. Good luck.

God yes - give up the expressing.
And what DOES your DH have to say about the situation?

I think cutting your hours would make a huge difference.3 days a week is plenty You don't want to feel the way you do if there is an alternative.Life is too short for that Think of what wopuld really make you feel happy aswell as fulfilling your career If you can afford it let your job take second place for a few years There will always be work for someone like you but your kids will br grown up before you know it

Remember, there are no prizes for the most frenzied lifestyle... no moral superiority in being the busiest human being on the planet...

The best role model you and your husband can possibly give your children is a balanced family life. Two full-time working parentss in high pressure careers is very rarely compatible with that.

Not read the whole thread but I am completely in accord with the need to work. Shame it gets polarised on here but I think the OP is saying she wants to work and it's an important part of her identity but that this post/this arrangement is not working.

RoseIrene - I work ft and I love it but I couldn't cope with your commute. And it sounds like your job is very demanding - billable hours and all that. I work in the investment advisory world and I used to be on the client side. Post baby I now work on internal stuff so no need for travel or billable hours. I'm sure in law the billable hours are an important part of your career ladder but perhaps you should not worry about the career ladder for now. I am still in my job that I love but I know the next five years will not be about enhancing my career but just keeping a job!

Also, I don't want to get flamed for this but if you are still expressing, it's no wonder you have no time for yourself. I am bf morning and night and that is quite enough and I'm giving up this month (8mo). It is really really draining and I would hate to have to do it at work. I'm amazed that you are still managing to express (I hated it with a passion - number one worst thing about being a mother imho).

It sounds like you are trying to be supermum and you need to prioritise. That doesn't mean giving it all up to sit in the garden. But look at giving up on the expressing? A different job without the billable hours pressure? Differently located job without the commute?

I know it's annoying but I found my company were delighted to get me doing internal things because nobody else wants to do them! They are all so busy wanting to make money that they don't want to "waste time" on corporate housekeeping like HR, training, finance, compliance etc. My job is now that I take our advice and turn it into written pieces for use across the firm as learning and training tools. It's actually really interesting. I was resistant to doing it as it seemed such a "mummy track" (ie, stop earning money for the firm and start looking after people via HR and training) but it's actually allowing me to stay in a firm I love and stay engaged without ruining my life.

I just read saladsucks' post and it seems I have copied every word she said

fabulous advice there from Marina RosieIrene.

You are doing too much, I am not surprised you can't cope. Not being able to sleep is a common symptom of stress/depression, you need to address that quickly. Can you get an au pair or live in nanny to help with the household stuff?

Can you do something else? I'm not suggesting that you give up work but can you not move into a different company or area of law? Something that would still be challenging but not quite as demanding. A change is as good as a rest...

how about becoming a PSL?

Agree with others who say you are simply doing too much. Marina v sound on breastfeeding; it's extraordinary to have made it to a year in those circumstances and you should congratulate yourself. And you are still waking up in the night? I would be in an asylum myself by now with all those pressures. You are made of stern stuff but that is not a reason to push yrself to your very limits. Agree with Anna about noone ultimately congratulating you for pushing so hard.
Second all those who say take a less pressurised job, part-time, to keep your hand in, or get your dh to. And Breathe........