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Original poster

Flex working/annual leave

39 replies

biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 18:13

I’ve just started a new job with a small charity. To fit with childcare I am working the hours as 12.30-4.30, 8-3 and 8-6 x 2, which they were happy to accommodate - they say they encourage flexible working.

They have said that when I want to book annual leave for the 12.30-4.30 I will have to book one whole day off. The annual leave allowance is already pretty low.

Where does this sit legally? Surely it is at odds with their flexible working policy? Many other members of staff work compressed hours but none so varied as mine.
TIA.

OP posts:
gamerwidow · 12/11/2017 18:25

Do you get your leave entitlement in days or hours. I work part time and my leave is calculated pro rata in hours so I only book the hours I need rather than full days.
If your leave is in days this would be harder to do because they’ve probably rounded up your half days into the leave calculation.

bedtimestories · 12/11/2017 18:44

I would find out how they have calculated your leave, is it based on the number of hours you work or the number of days you work a week. I take the hours option if it's available

BakedBeans47 · 12/11/2017 18:45

They should calculate you annual leave in hours

BuzzKillington · 12/11/2017 18:48

Yes, your leave should be in hours and you take it pro rata.

Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 18:50

Thanks for the replies. It’s calculated in days, that’s the problem (my previous PT job was in minutes!). They say they just have a blanket policy that if someone wants to take leave it is calculated by the day and ‘that would work out over the week’. But part of the reason I decided to work only 4 hours on a Monday was to ensure I didn’t need to take lots of leave to cover the many Monday school in service days throughout the year! They said I could make this up in TOIL (there are lots of additional evening events I need to attend, which was not made clear in the recruitment process either).
Just seems a bit of an unfair policy, particularly if they are big on allowing staff flex working.

OP posts:
ivykaty44 · 12/11/2017 18:50

Your annual leave would be granted in hours surely?

If a standard week is 40 hours and you’re allocated 25 days that would be 200 hours

If you’re working hours per week are 29 hours then the hours should be pro rata

Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 18:51

Wondering if there is any legal come back?

OP posts:
Hauntedlobster · 12/11/2017 18:53

They’re
Shooting themselves in the foot. With an allowance like that I’d only ever take holidays on 8-6 days...

ivykaty44 · 12/11/2017 18:54

I’d explain to your company that if you booked just the two days annual leave each week that we’re worked at 9 hours then they’d be out of pocket.

Can you imagine working the summer holidays and booking off the longer two days through the 6 weeks....

Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 19:18

Good point! Maybe I’ll save up lots of TOIL for the shorter days.

Still niggles me though.

OP posts:
Groovee · 12/11/2017 19:20

My husband gets his in hours not days. You could ask about that.

flumpybear · 12/11/2017 19:43

It should be worked out in hours part time to full time equivalent

Hauntedlobster · 12/11/2017 19:50

I would tread carefully - TOIL doesn’t generally form part of your contract so can be removed/changed at any time without consultation. It’s also not ideal for holidays as a lot of places won’t let you save it up like that. Just be wary!

EggysMom · 12/11/2017 20:00

Do you see the 12:30-4:30 shift as being half a day? If so, then you only work 3.5 days per week. You should expect 3.5/5 x the standard annual leave allowance. For example if full time would normally get 25 days, then for 3.5 days/week working you would be awarded 17.5 days A/L.

However if your employers are seeing 12:30-4:30 as a full (albeit short) day, then they will award 4/5 x the standard allowance. So if full timers get 25 days, you would be awarded 20 days A/L

It works out the same because, under the first scenario, if you took five Mondays off work (at half a day each) you'd only use up 2.5 days of your allowance and have 15 left; under the second scenario, if you took the same five Mondays off work you'd use up 5 days of your allowance and have 15 left.

What you want to ensure is that your employer hasn't awarded you 3.5/5 days of annual leave, but then expect you to use a whole day off for the short day.

Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 20:22

Thanks all - brilliant advice. I will be careful about the TOIL. Eggsmom - I am contracted 30 hours which is 4/5th of full time which I am squeezing into 3.5 working days. So I will get 4/5ths salary and I assume, holiday. Will double check that though.

OP posts:
Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 20:24

I did suggest it was worked out in hours but they dismissed that. The ‘staff handbook says it’s worked out by days’.

OP posts:
EggysMom · 12/11/2017 20:29

A full-time person gets 5 weeks holiday (5 x 5 = 25 days).

If you are receiving 4/5 salary, it is the equivalent of working 4 days per week. So for 5 weeks holiday, you get 4days x 5 = 20 days.

The fact that you work some long days and some short is irrelevant. You work a 4 day week, you need to use 4 days of leave to have that week off. So the short day is a 'day', just the same as a long day is a 'day'.

Original poster
biscuitdunkerette · 12/11/2017 20:54

Ok thanks for that EggysMom. Sounds like that’s what they’re saying but will double check.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 12/11/2017 20:57

Eggs but that only works if he op takes off blocks if full weeks or takes all days if the week equally. Otherwise it's in her interests to have her long days off as leave.

Penfold007 · 12/11/2017 21:09

You work 30 hours per week so that is how your leave should be calculated. You should get 168 hours per year, taking a Monday off should 'cost' four hours.

AntiHop · 12/11/2017 21:33

What they're saying sounds wrong to me. I work compressed hours and work out my annual leave in hours.

EggysMom · 12/11/2017 21:52

Lots of people work compressed hours where I am based, but they still work out the annual leave in days and half-days as that is what the HR system uses. So asking an employer to "please use hours as that is more accurate" may be something they cannot accommodate without a system upgrade.

EggysMom · 12/11/2017 21:54

Eggs but that only works if he op takes off blocks if full weeks or takes all days if the week equally. Otherwise it's in her interests to have her long days off as leave.

The company has to work on a law of averages. There is equal chance that the OP will take a short day off, as them taking a long day off. If the OP only ever takes the long days off, s/he'll benefit. If the OP only takes the short days off, the company benefits. Neither is actually likely unless the OP or the employer is very shrewd. So it all works out on average.

Hauntedlobster · 12/11/2017 23:33

The company will work on the law of averages until the employee comes out trumps, then it will change its policy.

Shine2018 · 12/11/2017 23:39

HR professional here. Eggy's - you are giving out advice that is not only incorrect but is illegal.

As previous posts have said OP, they should calculate your leave in hours. The gov.uk website is clear and easy to follow on this. If they are funny with it then get in touch with ACAS who will back you up.