Flex working/annual leave

[biscuitdunkerette]

I’ve just started a new job with a small charity. To fit with childcare I am working the hours as 12.30-4.30, 8-3 and 8-6 x 2, which they were happy to accommodate - they say they encourage flexible working.

They have said that when I want to book annual leave for the 12.30-4.30 I will have to book one whole day off. The annual leave allowance is already pretty low.

Where does this sit legally? Surely it is at odds with their flexible working policy? Many other members of staff work compressed hours but none so varied as mine.
TIA.

It doesn't matter what it says in the handbook - handbooks and contracts can not override the law - it's like estate agents writing that you must agree to inspections in your tenancy contract - it's not legal and so just because it's in the contract doesn't mean it's enforceable.

I see Eggy is apparently a manager - oh dear. I really hope you don't work out your employees' AL as you have here.

Regardless of the legalities, I'm sure if you pointed out to them that you were now going to take all your annual leave days from your 8-6 days, they'd soon revise the staff handbook .
They've just not thought it through. Much better to resolve it by pointing out how it is going to disadvantage them, and get them to see it makes sense to review the policy than confront them with ACAS in the first instance.

Our place works it out by days. So I get 4/5 of the holiday but do 3.5 days in hours (over 4days). I suppose I could cheat the system by making sure my holiday was always on long days but I think it averages out over the year. It is a poor system but would probably destroy the HR database to change it. OP situation is unfavourable the other way with wanting more than average holidays on the short day. Can you increase your Monday hours?

OK just read the rest of the thread. If it should be worked out in hours I think I may ask our HR department.

I work part-time for a government type organisation and get my annual leave in days. It can’t be that illegal.

Wow some of you have really missed the point here

It is unlawful not to give an employee holiday she is entitled to and this is covered by the Working Time Regulations. It is also unlawful to treat a worker less favourably because they are part time which is covered by the Part-time Workers Regulations.

The method used to calculate the leave can be anything you like so long as the employee gets all of the holiday they are entitled to and they don't get less because they are part time and their employer can't work out that 4 hours is not the same as one day for people who work irregular or varied hours.

Op, at the moment your employer is not giving you the correct amount of leave so is falling foul of the law on both counts. That's what you go back to them with.

As pp said calculating leave in hours is the easiest way to do things for irregular working patterns. If a computer system can't cope with it (ffs) then there are two options:

1. Fix the damn computer so it's compliant with the law.

1. Round all leave for part timers down to the nearest half day because you can give workers more favourable treatment for being part time but not less favourable. Bear in mind this will be unfair and piss everyone else off plus mean there's nobody around to actually do any work for a much larger proportion of the time so may work out a more expensive option that fixing the damn computer system.

Guess which option I favour?

As pp have said there is (and definitely was when I last looked) a calculator on the gov.uk website which you can use to show your employer the correct amount of leave or any discrepancy between what they say and your entitlement: www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement

I’ve just started with them, so don’t intend to get heavy handed with ACAS. With a total staff of 18, no HR person/dept nor computer system, as has been said they just haven’t thought it through. Probably just plumped for what was easiest to calculate. That’s great to know it’s unlawful. I will be bringing that up at an appropriate time. Thank you very much

Most HR issues are people not thinking things through as helpfully illustrated a few times above

Being helpful and taking a solution to the problem not only gets you what you want but also wins you a few brownie points.

Good luck :)

I'm reading with interest. Can I ask a question please?

I currently work 30 hrs/week over 4 days and get 20 days leave. Am I being short changed with my leave? 20x7.5 = 150hrs whereas the .gov website states my entitlement is 168hrs.

Should I request my leave is in hours, or is days better?
It always used to be in hours which was useful if I wanted to take a couple of hours for something.

TIA

”I currently work 30 hrs/week over 4 days and get 20 days leave. Am I being short changed with my leave? 20x7.5 = 150hrs whereas the .gov website states my entitlement is 168hrs.”

You should get 22.5 days. It doesn’t need to be in hours just because you don’t work 5 days a week. If you work the same hours each day then days is fine.

Are you sure you’re not getting some bank holidays on top of your 20 days?

Thanks flowery, I get all BH (work Mondays and Fridays).

So you get 28 days holiday then. Same as your full time colleagues? Or does your employer give more than statutory minimum?

Not really sure what others get, will have to try and find out.

Thanks again.