"it is unacceptable for men or women to call in because a child is sick in my view."

[hunkermunker]

Xenia says "it is unacceptable for men or women to call in because a child is sick in my view."

I am interested to know what other people do in this situation.

Greeny, come on now, I didnt say you lived there, more like 'holidaying'.....

Begone, you sour mink-wearing vegetable!

Xenia, I take your points about your children's self-sufficiency and the dangers of smothering more seriously than you think. However I do think leaving a child ill in hospital without taking a day off work is wrong - in my opinion (and it is only my opinion) it is omissions like this which inform a person's gradual impression of their own self-worth and ability of to really loved/valued. I don't think whether or not a child would say later to the parent that she was happy and remembered no neglect is relevant at all I'm afraid. I have known many many high achievers at school and at Oxford who were highly polished socially and highly qualified academically, who appeared confident and well-grounded - until something caused them to crash and burn because at root they were emotionally undernourished and lacked the firm foundation of a secure and loving childhood. It's one of my personal core beliefs that a child who grows up believing that he/she is not the most important thing in his/her parents' lives, especially when ill or in need, is unlikely to be a genuinely happy adult. By all means teach them that they are not the epicentre of the universe, all children need to know that - but they should be at the epicentre of their own parents' universe IMO, which is not the same thing at all. That is not to say parents should not work, or should not have other interests.

I won't refrain from speaking my mind on something I feel as strongly about as this, and as far as I can see, Xenia hasn't asked me to.

Oh, I'd forgotten about the fur. That still is dispicable in my book sorry.

?I can't go with your argument that normal becomes acceptable.?

Bugsy, you are right and it?s a very common intellectual and logical fallacy that people fall for. For instance, millions of people search google for a magician called Darren Brown; only a few thousand for Derren Brown. Some people would say that 6 million people can?t be wrong; well they are, regularly.

Children can be very self-sufficient. I used to work with a woman who, from about the age of 9, virtually brought up her younger sister. And looked after herself (feeding, getting to school etc). Because their mother was an alcoholic.

I don't see how one of her parents not spending the whole day in hospital with a child who is ill like that is going to make her think she's not properly loved. I really don't.

You say they should feel the most importan thing in your life. Does that mean people should have one child in that case? Because having five of them means they're one of five and every day you're picking which one gets your attention at which time so even if I didn't work that one would not be the most important thing would it?

Surely you've just homed in on one thing -attending the hospital when other parents might think that doesn't matter but being with them on their birthday is or never missing a sports match - all very subjective things and yet children can feel loved with parents taking various courses of action. IN other words there isn't one right way which has on the list you check off - attendance at hospital all day when they're ill.

them, Habs girls (www.habsgirls.org.uk/) has a lovely system of school private coaches for the girls. It's one of the nicest schools in the country and she lvoed it. They have a system of coach stewards - when she was in the sixth form she was one - nice older girls looking after the younger ones. They had a great time on the coach. Did her the world of good, much better than being ferried like some little princess to school each day and for our family at that stage the only way to get her to that school.

"Nice private hopital". I hink that is the key thing, when ds was in hospital 5 years ago at 7 months for 5 days. I did camp out. BUT it was NHS, nothing against the medical care but it was the every day stuff like feeding him his meals etc that they just did not have the time for.
I was offerred hospital meals - he could suck on a chip!!!!
They had jars of food - country chicken followed by blueberry dessert (see 5 years later I still remember), every meal for every day. So we brought oiur own in.

I am lucky because when our children/childminder is sick I can usually work from home. BUT they are very lucky because I have been checking.fixing one system at work every morning including weekends before 8:30 and fixing it if it is down (from home). I have been doing this since October and will hopefully finish in a week or two. The only days when I did not do this was between Christmas & New Year, when I was up at my parents with no internet access (no gas either). Because they are flexible, I will put the extra hours in, (my project manager told me earlier that the only time the users noticed the site had ever been down was during the Christmas week when someone else was looking after it).

But I do agree with Xenia (actually I usually agree with most of what she says but have a less extreme view) because a lot of what she says is very true and I have lost out on promotion because I cannot work till midnight when the systems are down - well I can but have to go home first, put the children to bed, call dh home from work early and go in later. (by the way I do an early start and early finish and he does the late start start/finish so less hours in childcare.

Sorry - I wrote an essay

I think it makes little difference to children how many of them there are, as long as they feel equally loved - that is not at all the same as being lower down on the list of priorities than a City job, or a nice car, or a hobby, or alcohol, or any of the other things people place above their families in their estimation.

It's fair to say that I am homing in one one detail, but that is because it seems to me to be representative of an attitude. I don't believe it would be possible for someone whose children were the most important thing in her life to do it. Even if your job were something genuinely important, ie it involved saving lives or helping the disadvantaged.

Of course it's only my opinion.

Depends on the child too. She's always been very independent. I just can't remember from the past all these things. The 3rd child had an undescended testicle operation at one point - I've not idea who went in for that or whatever. When the twins were very little they both had an emergency admission to hospital and one of us was there all night.
This tonsils thing she was treated so well - only child in the place, free lovely teddy bear as part of the package, menu of food to choose from, TV in room above bed able to choose the Sky channels she wanted rather than fighting over them as at home. I think she had a great time.

Oh, they had Sky TV and really nice food? Well, why didn't you say so?

xenia - i am brown nosing over in CHAT....i demand you acknowledge my suckupedness

I don't agree. I love the children very much. I would never have had five if I didn't and I spend an amount of time with them that I feel happy with and I believe they all feel loved.

I wonder what we mean by most important thing in our lives though? Most of us would die for our children although I don't think I would if that meant the other 4 didn't have mother and thankfully I've never been in the position the Nazis put some parents in - choose the one we shoot. But it is also important we are able to support them too so they don't starve and I'd rather work than be on state benefits because I think that benefits them more but if I were on state benefits I could give more time to the children.

Gs, yes; although actually in some ways private hospitals are less safe than NHS in some areas. Some worrying cases of care os mothers in labour there benig worse in health terms than the NHS. It's by no means a straight - one is always better because it's private.

(I will look at the other thread then... but then need to get to bed)

'Tonsilectomy' and 'great time' ........not sure if they go together really, private hospital or not.

I think xenia's comment about the food may have been influenced by my 'suck on a chip' comment - but she doesn't need me to defend her

Well it?s not just that Xenia, it?s only natural for people to try and build up a picture of who they interact with here. Most of your posts, all of them in fact, advocate a very individualist approach, always ready to tendentiously disparage stay ay home mothers simply it seems to justify your own position. I do see a bit of insecurity and defensiveness in that, a kind of superior/inferiority complex but again this is only based on what you post not who you are. Nobody can be reduced to labels like SAHM or which carries the connotation of ?housewife? in most of your post. I?m sure in the same way you are not reducible to being a mumsnet polemicist, but it does seem to be a role you relish; again I?m not sure why. When you obviously have so much, why attack those with less?

It?s impossible to put two and two together but people will try ? that?s human nature. Maybe the picture just needs a bit of balance.

I can never keep up with these conversations

They don't need you to die for them. They need you to live for them. IMO. Especially when they are young and even more so when they are ill.

Of course we won't agree, but it's an interesting debate (when the sycophants will allow it to proceed)

I don't actually mean to state that "you don't love your children" - I don't know you. I think most people love their children, don't they? Sometimes I think even my mother loved her children . But I admit that I don't understand the kind of loving relationship you are describing. It isn't what I understand a mother-child relationship to be.

Xenia, you do need to go to bed. Because that working all hours vs. state benefits (with the eiher/or implication) thing was not up to your usual standard. Really very disappointing.

Greensleeves, your last couple of posts have emphasised the 'mother' over the 'parent'. Is this just with reference to you and Xenia, or does it apply to both parents? How do you feel about fathers working long hours? Can their children still be the most important things in their lives?