"it is unacceptable for men or women to call in because a child is sick in my view."

[hunkermunker]

Xenia says "it is unacceptable for men or women to call in because a child is sick in my view."

I am interested to know what other people do in this situation.

Oh, are we still working on the theory that Xenia is not who she pretends to be. I just accepted that she is who we all think she is. Am I gullible?

Hi CD. How are you? How's the new job?

Hi uwila

Not started it yet

works a lot in family court too, obviously

[ironic]

thanks cd....
monkeytrousers. i am family lawyer. i dont appear to share any of xenia's views (so far) about anything.... [relieved emoticon]

Call me old fashioned but it's never acceptable to call in sick when you are not - whatever the reason.
dh and I both work. We have a daily Nanny (like private education this is a choice that demands sacrifices elsewhere - we are not 'rich'). I guess one of the many reasons we did this is so we don't have to be taking days off because one of the kids is sick. There's more than enough time off reqired for parent/teacher, concerts etc etc, Yes, Nanny's get sick - but rarely compared to small children. For a Nanny to take a day off ill I'd expect her to be as ill as a stay at home Mum would have to be to make her dh stay at home for the day. I am very careful to keep a few days annual leave aside until as late as possible in the year so that I can cover anything that does happen - although my main worry there is always covering the possible gaps between Nannys should she leave (although this hasn't been an issue for many years now).
It has to be said that it's generally automatically assumed that stuff gets covered by me not dh!! Maybe the next generation will live the dream!

There comes a point when someone is off sick so much you're allowed to sack them and it's not unfair dismissal. It becomes very hard where someone has a partner or child or mother who is dying or they themselves are very ill but want to try to carry on working as long as they can. Different employers will have different standards, ethos and affordability for these things. I suspect most of us couldn't afford to have a nanny off on full pay for a year whilst having to employ another one for example. Many 2 or 3 person businesses are in the same position. Whereas some of us might think it's only right the civil service (as tax payers - the mothers who pay nannies' tax, employers' tax and their own tax - our own personal triple whammy) should be more compassionate.

If my child is sick, either DH or I will call in and look after her. We are open that it is she that is sick and not us, but we both still get paid for it.

Why shouldn't we call in sick and get paid? I still have to pay my childminder if my daughter is sick so why should I be out of pocket both ways?

Luckily both DH and I work for decent companies. (Flexible hours, enough emphasis put on child care etc)

We make our decision on who should be off based on who has got the most demanding day, so we're not always leaving our workplace in the deep end.

I think its terrible that there are work places where they dont pay employees for being off sick / for having to look after a sick child. Perhaps we should suggest to our children they get sick at times that are more suitable for us, like bank holidays and weekends.

no elf, you just need to make sure you earn such huge amounts of money that you can always pay fo back up help in an emergency, harden your heart to any thoughts tht your dc might want to be cared for by a parent if they are sick, gird your loins, stiffen your upper lip, polish up your protestant work ethic to a brilliant shine, recognise that in a capitalist western society you are valued as a worker / consumer and then.... get on with it.

dh didnt go to work one day last week because i had gastric flu and was stuck on the loo for hours at a time.
i needed him to stay at home with me to look after the children. he called and told his employer i was ill so he had to stay home.
they will pay him for it. it is at the mamagers discretion at his place as to wether he gats paid or not.

guess it depends on your job. I am a barrister and if I am due at Court to represent somebody and I ring in because my child is sick the consequences are dire. The case cannot go ahead. Costs the taxpayer a fortune in wasted Court and Judge time but worse of all-somebody who has waited months to have their case determined and has been preparing for this day for a while has to be told that the case cannot go ahead and they must wait for a number of months before there is court time available.
I think it is really the impact that taking time off has upon others. If the impact is less and the employee is otherwise reliable and responsible I cannot see that there should be a difficulty.
If you choose a job (like mine) where the impact of your absence is serious to the welfare of others, then I think you have to have other options if your child is under the weather.

I'll make sure to remember that controlfreaky2!!

We have to fill out sickness records at work, so far mine has not been pulled as an issue.

And seeing as I have been sent home sick a few times for dragging my behind into work when I really didn't feel 100%, I think they know that I'm not taking the mick when I phone up sick.

Will check back on the thread later, lunch almost over, must get back to the slave driving!

chipkid, what's your back-up plan?

just wondering what kind of emergency childcare people can rustle up, particularly when the children are at school?

Do you have dhs who can stay at home?

At the minute I have a nanny. I didn't with my first child and my back up plan was virtually non-existent! my dh would have to step in if he could. Otherwise my mother-in-law who lives an hour away has been called upon! My nanny rang in sick a few months ago. I was due in Court. I had to go to Court to ask the Judge to put the case back in the list until after lunch. My dh cared for dd whilst I diid this and then I took over whilst he had a meeting and after that he took dd whilst I went back to Court!

I do understand the difficulties and so am in favour of time being allowed for a genuine problem IF the impact on others is minimal.

As chk says depends on the job. Would be the same with teachers and a class full of A level pupils and in fact with some of my nannies - they know if they don't turn up and I or my ex husband couldn't work the same consequences flow.

But those says employers should let people be off what about my point if the employer is you? Would you pay your nanny for say 30 days off sick at full pay and also pay a temporary nanny to come in? No. Some businesses also can't afford that. Obviosuly if it's SSP they get back from the state at very low rates that's different.

No one mentinos my point - that chilren can manage with someone else here and that the parent might perfer to be in work than nurse a sick child. I suppose I'm the only person prepared to say that. I'm not sure 22 years ago when I had my daughter I felt quite the same but when you've had so many children being ill over so many years you realise what's serious and what isn't and many a time I've left for work delighted that after a night mopping up sick I can leave it to our nanny to deal with that until I get home at 7 to start the usual double shift.

chipkid i think you have hit the nail on the head here.
when working for a big multinational it really wasn't a big deal if i had a day at home looking after a sick child. At the end of the day i had to get my work done and i did, of course i did, i didn't let anyone down by not being there. The odd time someone would have to go to a meeting to cover for me and so that would impact their day, but of course i did it for them too.

If the consequences of you not turning up are dire, then you have to have a back up. But in those jobs you either need to be paid enough for that to be in place (£1-2m should do it ) or the workplace should have an emergency scheme.

At the end of the day this country needs women to bear children as much as they need us in work.

Back up plans are very hard for all those who care for children, animals, elderly relatives etc. I never felt completely comfortable even with a day nanny. I suppose knowing my work would always come first and my ex husband said he'd give his up if it ever were necessary was the best back up (which is one that most men rely on as they prefer to marry women who earn less and whose career takes second place). My sister has been worried about this recently. Hers are at school but if they're off and she has these kind of very urgent work things like mentioned on this thread that you just cannot cancel at all easily and only you can do, she worries. (She doesn't live near me). She did find this emergency nanny agency who sent someone and although for some people that might end up costing more than you earn that day if you need to keep up your goodwill with customers/an emmployer it's worth working at a loss for a day.

My best back up is having loads of chidren so the older ones who are adult can help if necessary.

Once the twins were left alone because of some mess up and instead of staying here they decided to go to a neighbour and explain they had been abandoned home alone... eek. So far social services have not taken my children away.

I have never resented caring for my children when ill-it isn't fun but I would prefer it to be me than somebody else.

However, sometimes it isn't possible and in those circumstances I find myself rushing home as soon as I have done what I have to do so that I can be with them.

Of course they survive with others particularly if that other is close to them. But they almost always prefer the care of one of their parents when ill don't they?

xenia, I agree that a parent is not really required unless the child is very distressed/very ill.
I also think from a certain age onwards they can be left alone - I had pneumonia at 8 and was off school for 4 weeks, my parents both still went to work IIRC (although my dm only worked p/t then so I wasn't left alone 10 hpd or whatever).

I am genuinely curious as to how people cope - a friend of mine and her dh are both teachers, and they rely heavily on both sets of grandparents being nearby.

I was always paid for days at home looking after sick children.
It was at our manager's discretion. That worked well - if you have someone who stays at home at every kid's sniffle or everytime their wife wasn't feeling well (yes some of the men were off more than the women) then the manager takes the decision whether to process their form for unpaid leave or just chuck it in the bin like she did with mine.

xenia, where did you say that you would PREFER to be in work than nurse a sick child??
if that is your view then that is your view.... but if you have a choice (unlike the scenarios chipkid mentions) wouldnt most parents put their dc's first? or dont your dc's want a parent with them if they are ill?

Hmm, something about chipkid's situation struck me; what about when you're ill? I know that it would cost the taxpayer horrendous amounts of money etc., but if you were my barrister and I was up for murder, I wouldn't actually want you to represent me while you were feeling under the weather. I'd want you to stay at home and get better, then come back into work when I could be sure that you were well enough to get me off.

I've read the whole thread and found some interesting points being made on both sides, as well as all the usual dross.

But Xenia..... neither parent taking a single day off when your child is in hospital having an operation? Poor, poor child. Shame on you.

have been there / done that caligula. the reality is you get on with it unless to do so would mean not doing your job properly for your client.... in which case however inconvenient etc a way forward has to found. (a short adjournment until you're well enough / until someone else can represent your client if at the beginning of a case). in rl it happens suprisingly rarely.... what usually happens is that you get really ill the minute you stop.... until then adreneline keeps you going!

caligila it is amazing that most of the barristers I know are NEVER ill!
yes they get colds and coughs etc-but VERY few ring in sick(I have never been off ill in over 15 years!)...on another point-if you were up for murder you would likely have two barristers-leading and junior-so you would be ok as long as it was the junior who was off sick!!!!!