Would you leave a £250,000pa job to be a SAHM?

[misosoup]

Ok, I've changed my name for this, not quite sure why....

I really enjoy my job and it is pretty well paid but since I returned to work after having DD2 I have been thinking a lot about this.

I can afford not to work, dh's income is nothing like mine but still above average although it will clearly be a huge drop in our standard of living.

And I miss the kids do much during the day... I spend 2 hours per day with them plus weekends. There is no way I can cut my hours any more and part-time is out of the question.

But I have worked so hard to get here, against all odds. I don't want to throw it all away.

xenia, thanks for your back up on the showgirl thread. 5 hours! bloody hell.

"a glorified maidservant and bottom wiper"

If that is really how you view full-time mothers, then I think your children are lucky you don't want to stay at home and look after them. Your attitude disgusts me.

"Not a very good example to daughters if people slog for all those exams, success etc and then become a glorified maidservant and bottom wiper is it?" but Xenia if your mother doesn't wipe your arse for you, or your father, then WHO WILL?
a nanny
a childminder
a nursery nurse

90-100% certain to be a woman

so are they OK to be role models, because they are getting paid for it?

I really don't get it. babies and children need looking after. someone needs to do it. I just don't get how it is somehow a poor role model to do i for love and not money

Most of what I've said was not emotive. I was provoked. I have spent a huge amount of time with my children over the last 22 years but I wouldn't never do it full time. It's boring and they don't need me there and I wouldn't be the best pesron to do it so I delegate it like women do all round the world when they can afford it from India to Egypt as it's always been done because there are more fun things to do, even fun things with children you can do when you delegate the worst bits of the job.

What I have tried to say on the various comments on here is that people, male and female can choose; that it should never be just a mother's choice. A father has an equal right to stay home and it's not fair of mothers to give themselves the option of that and not give their husband the same right/choice; to consider if you will be happy at home or not and if you are fine, do it. To take my one comment about the example to others and ignore the others isn't that balanced. The Sunday Times article rarely (we are bombared with propaganda in the press to keep women chained to sinks at home) gave some advantages to children of mothers working. I suppose one point is it's not morally superior or right to stay at home and yet it's often trumpeted as such.

it's not helpful to argue the example point because I don't think parents should battle out these issues with each other when we have more in common, than differences, but the points in its favour are many. The message that can be given is that no point in educating women at all much if they're not going to need the A levels and degrees, that women stay home and men work - picture presented to little girls who then perpetuate that norm as they grown up, that only men are economically active and that women leech off and financially depends on men whom they approach with begging bowls when they need some money to buy a dress, whilst he spends at his whim the money he's earned, that women's future financial stability is dependent on keeping their man happy and with them, that women fought and died to vote, own property only in effect to give it up to men, that only women can care for children, that househusbands don't exist or are no good; that a mother's life is in the home, like a curtailed Taliban wother, tied to house and home in the domestic sphere as so many cultures and traditions have had it, women as property, lives tied to their children, women as carers and men as providers. I just don't like the model but feel free to be happy and practise it.

Xenia I am not ever going to argue about a woman's right to choose

but until women give full-time motherhood the status and respect it deserves, rather than blathering on about maidservants and boredom, a right to choose is a joke.

Being a SAHM is a positive choice, just as being a WOHM. Both should be given their full appreciation. Both can be hard work, can be stimulating, and both are worthy of admiration. And as for degrees and experience being of no use, why do you see them as null and void as soon as you take time off to have children? Are only those without degrees allowed to look after children? Is having intelligent and forward-thinking women bringing up children in this society a bad thing?

I downsized my career greatly - I work part-time, not even half-time at that - when I had children but I don't see it as a loss. As I've said before, all the investment made in me through education and work experience has made me into a person who can change and grow. I haven't finished because I've taken time out to have children.

I think the reason that you are getting such reactions is that you're not just saying 'it's a choice' or 'it's not for me'; you're saying implicity (sometimes explicitly) 'it's boring and unstimulating and a waste of my time, and it makes women into pre-feminist drudges'

which is a pile of crap

Miso, I have not read all the thread but I knew before my DTS were born that I wanted to work part-time 3 days a week and had it all arranged before they were born. They go to nursery on the days that I work and I know that I have the work/family life balance that benefits all of us.

In your position, I would have saved up as much as I could and just left. Money isn't everything and remember, companies these days are not loyal to their employees so why sacrifice your private life for them?

Don't forget, you have transferable skills that can be applied in a wide range of jobs if you are prepared to be flexible. If your company ran into economic difficulties, they would not think twice about making you redundant.

Xenia, do you have email or something - wanted a chat to pick your brains on how to successfully manage kids/family/work.

It seems to me this is the age-old dilemma between time and money. You've got to figure out what's more important to you and for your kids. I'm a sahm but plan to go back to work when dd is 2/3. But I understand the sort of job you do and know that once you're out you're pretty much out. It sort of reminds me of that trashy chick lit book 'I don't know how she does it'.

Good luck whatever you decide

Hmmm, I think it is more of a dilemma between people and money. Xenia, for example, clearly places financial gain at the epicentre of her self-worth and her perception of "achievement". Whereas others may feel that human relationships and the investment of time, love and patience are more important in the long-term. Worlds apart.

'maidservant and bum wiper' Thats not how i would describe motherhood and me with my degree from a red brick university.

I am horrified by your comments Xenia. Have you not read all the research saying that society 'needs' more educated sahms ?

That's what I meant actually greensleaves - is your time or your money more important to the people you love, iykwim

Greensleeves i think oyu're beign very harsh on Xenia and others. How on earth do you know that she "clearly places financial gain at the epicentre of her self-worth and her perception of "achievement".
Maybe she honesly (like me and a few others on this thread) found that her personality and skills didn't match being a SAHM, maybe she enjoys doing things, including spending money to see her family healthy and happy.

and once again i ask the question WHY is it mums we keep talking about? why does society need more educated (and what on earth they mean by that?!?) stay at homes MUMS, why isn't it dad or gran or whatever?

Greensleeves and others, would you be so scathing about a man who said the things Xenia has said?

And actually i don't see why maid and bum wiper are insluting descriptions, with a toddler i certinaly do my share of bum wiping and i do all the jobs that are normally implied nby the job title of MAID. Its only an insulting description if you feel that actually being a maid or carer is not a worthwhile job.

I do think hygeine jobs (maid, cleaner, litter picker, dustbin collector, sewer cleaner) are VERY important.
I also think that the practical 'caring' element that goes with small children or elderly relatives etc has to be done and is important to maintianing life and dignity.
However as said several times i don't PERSONALLY enjoy that type of work. that doens't mean I despise it or the people who do it, i may not understnad how oyu could enjoy it but that doens't make me a bad person.
I'm in the process of qualifying to be a secondary shcool teacher after 10 years of community and youth work. Many people would HATE dealing with the teenagers I have worked with, hae trudging round a council estate in the dark trying to get residents to stop their kids building illeagel bonfires, I love it. So thats what i do, i don't love being with kids under 3, give me a break!

"The message that can be given is that no point in educating women at all much if they're not going to need the A levels and degrees, that women stay home and men work - picture presented to little girls who then perpetuate that norm as they grown up, that only men are economically active and that women leech off and financially depends on men whom they approach with begging bowls when they need some money to buy a dress, whilst he spends at his whim the money he's earned, that women's future financial stability is dependent on keeping their man happy and with them, that women fought and died to vote, own property only in effect to give it up to men, that only women can care for children, that househusbands don't exist or are no good; that a mother's life is in the home, like a curtailed Taliban wother, tied to house and home in the domestic sphere as so many cultures and traditions have had it, women as property, lives tied to their children, women as carers and men as providers. I just don't like the model but feel free to be happy and practise it"
Xenia what the FUCK are you talking about?!?!!?!?!?!!?
WHO is practising this "model"???????????
women who stay at home to look after their children???????
may I respectfully point out that you are talking out of your arse. really if you can't saying anything which isn't so deeply vile and insulting that women who stay at home to look after their children are leeching off men and begging them then I suggest that you say nothing.
I am very sorry that you have such a deeply fucked up view of human relationships that you seem to see everything in financial terms.
in normal, functional families, what happens is this: the man and the women work out between them who is best to look after the children, and they share the money and income in the best way they can.

Have read nearly all this thread and really enjoyed it. I want to add my 2 pennies worth too.

1. With children, like anything, you get back what you put in. Will you ever having anything more precious in your life than your chldren?

1. Child raising can be as simplistic or as challenging as you want to make it. There are zillions of ways of helping your children develop into fabulous human beings, which takes your creativity and energy and research skills etc. etc. etc.

1. I came from an affluent area in NZ to a part of London with a very high proportion of refugees and "lunch-funded" kids. I am really impressed by the behaviour of the less privileged kids - my son is now the spoilt brat of the group. Maybe your kids would be better off growing up with less money (like you and your husband did)?

1. I like the Steve Biddulph saying that lots of men work all hours at the office essentially to get their boss to love them - when "he's" never going to do that - while their kids are at home primed for it.

1. I was originally a court stenographer then a secretary. As soon as I started retraining in law people responded VERY differently to me. At first I found it embarressing as I knew I was just the same person. But it is actually very useful when it comes to dealing with doctors etc. - you just get a whole lot more credibility when you provide an "occupation" with some status - sad and stupid but true.

1. I never got that far into practising law before having a baby but enough to know that although it is nice swanning about in a flash office in flash clothes having flash lunches etc. etc. - essentially you're just lining rich people's pockets. For me that could never be that satisfying.

1. I went back to work part-time which I enjoy for the change of scenery but I didn't get to do the interesting type of work I did before and certainly not the $$$$.

1. I don't think the trial on the lesser income will really work because at the moment you will have everything you need. It's only after a year or more that you need to start replacing big items and that's when you will really notice the lack of disposable income.

1. It sounds like you want to give it a go and I it would be sad if you always wonder, "what if". I think six months will probably be long enough to know whether you miss your work or are happier at home. I would do your best to get a sabbatical if I was you.

"6. I never got that far into practising law before having a baby but enough to know that although it is nice swanning about in a flash office in flash clothes having flash lunches etc. etc. - essentially you're just lining rich people's pockets. For me that could never be that satisfying."

I have some sympathy with Xenia's POV, though I'm probably less extreme.

But I think the OP's options are almost certainly wider than they might appear to her atm -- I can't believe that somebody with the ambition and ability to get that far in the jungle of city trading won't be able to come up with an employment or self-employment option that enables her to combine parenting and work in a more satisfying balance.

I walked out of a job as a university lecturer when dd1 was 3 because I couldn't combine home and work (to have a serious academic career you have to be prepared to move around the country while earning peanuts, and I hated being away from dh and home). Within three months of leaving I was offered a far more lucrative job doing specialised consultancy with hours that enabled me to spend more time at home. When that job started putting more pressure on me than I was happy with, I left to become self-employed. I now work mainly from home, mainly school hours but with the occasional longer day when required.

It's not perfect, but it's about as close to having it all as it's possible to get. And I'm not alone -- I know a good many professional mums (two lawyers, a fund manager, two journalists, some political types and a clutch of computer people, off the top of my head) who also seem to have set themselves up with sufficiently flexible deals to be at least a part-time presence at the school gates.

Once you step away from the all-or-nothingness of one particular job, things become far less black and white than you would expect.

god harpsi I hadn't read that bit properly!

probably because I was too busy polishing my begging bowl

dh won't put a shekel in it unless it is squeaky clean

[wtf emoticon]

wouldn't it just be soooo much easier if someone had invented joint bank accounts in order to give women a less oppressive way of buying the shopping

I gave up a very well-paid job after dd3 was born - seemed the sensible thing to do. Have since suffered PND which I put down to low self-esteem. Am now retraining to take 50% pay cut to try and combine working and parenting... not sure that helps, but just want to say that staying at home with kids is bloody hard work, however much you love them, and you need to keep an eye on your own wellbeing.

Wasn't agreeing with Xenia's 'leeching off men' line btw, just with the bit about not necessarily wanting to spend all day every day with my children.

"begging bowl"

Xenia has serious issues IMO.

Wasn't agreeing with Xenia's 'leeching off men' line btw, just with the bit about not necessarily wanting to spend all day every day with my children.

i gave up a high paid high pressure job (partner in firm of accts) a year ago when dd1 was 5. have since had dd3. i am loving being a sahm. less tired, calmer with kids, more involved with school and the rest of their lives. i don't regret working when they were younger but i had had enough. we are very lucky to be able to afford for me to give up - i am well aware most people dont have the choice. if you can afford it , go for it.

Why is it a serious issue if you prefer to earn your own way in terms of actual household income coming in?

Still waiting for any of the ardent pro SAHM gorup to explain why they dont' talk about a fathers role in any of this

I don't want to label myself as an "ardent SAHM" - but my answer to Riab's question is that it's not relevant in misosoup's case - it is her that is experiencing the internal draw to sah - not the childrens' father.

It's great if a father want to be a SAHD, although, whether through hormones, brain structure or culture or a mixture of all, it's not so usual that they will experience the terrible tugs to both home and work that some Mums are inclined to.

Also, because they are so rare, even if a Dad would like to stay at home it's much harder for him because he is currently swimming against our cultural norm - so support groups and acceptance are much harder to find. It's actually women who are much luckier as they have a real choice (at least externally if not internally) - home or work or mix - as set out in this thread. I think Dads are generally much less free to choose.