High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

I haven't read the whole thread but finding it very reassuring and inspiring. I'm in the category though somewhat reluctantly, I used to have a well (but not spectacularly paid) job I greatly enjoyed then, following relocation due to dh's work I went into financial services. Now have full time v pressured job and two kids aged 8 and 6.

One thing i would say is that I never , not once felt guilty leaving my babies in the care of a nanny but I now feel much worse leaving my school age kids. I'm missing out on school dropoff a and pickups, homework, extracurricular activities etc. Also missing out on their little dramas and moments of joy, and I'm struggling with it. Not much flexibility in my role which means I leave home at 7.30 and come back at 7/7.30 every day - long hours and very little quality time with the little ones. As others have said part time is not the answer, I tried it and was immediately "mummy-tracked" (so much so I had to leave the organisation).

I'm wondering if any mums of older children feel/felt the same. I sometimes feel I want to step out of the game entirely...

I know exactly what you mean, softcookie. I skipped out of the door without a backward glance when DD was a baby. Now she's 3, and (a) she's getting much more interesting and pleasant to be with and (b) she can make it very clear that she wants me to be home. She actually sees much more of her dad than most small children do (DH is part-time), but she wants me too, and if I've had a particularly bad week and haven't really seen her Mon-Fri she behaves appallingly for DH, which is hard on both of them.

I'm not particularly money-driven, so I don't mind about never making mega-bucks. I've moved jobs twice in my career, and each time actually took a pay cut (first time the pay went up again fast, second time it's crept up but I haven't got back to the salary level I was at when I moved). But I am ambitious: I want to achieve as much as I'm capable of professionally, and it's really frustrating that the price for that is going to be working crazy hours throughout DD's childhood.

I don't know what the answer is, but agree with you that it isn't going part-time.

Found this thread really interesting. I am a bit of an oddity - single resident parent (2 teens) in high earning job (specialist consultancy). Mostly now work from home. Used to do senior commercial dir roles in industry when my DC were small, then ran my own company for a few years before selling out. Now back employed, so I have tried all types of working arrangement.

So having given it some thought: Here are some of the things I have learnt:

Get as much help as you can. Having it all is an illusion and doesnt mean doing it all. When DC are young, get the best possible nanny you can and have them around a couple of hours a day more than you need them. This takes the pressure off you in the evening.

As they grow older juggling home and work can get more problematic, not less. So be prepared to change your household set up to one that works for the age your DC are. I have until recently had a housekeeper plus au pair, but have given up on au pairs as my teens largely ignore them. My housekeeper does pick ups if I cant. Re schooling - sometimes if you can afford it private school can offer a lot to your DC that you cant do if you are not running them around in the evenings. Mine are at school until 9pm and do all their sport, music, activities and socialising with school. Buy more uniform than you think they need. ditto sports kit, particularly if your children go between houses as mine do.

Be there for the important stuff - put everything in your work diary and dont compromise on the promises you make your DC.

Dont make cupcakes - ever

If you are both working agree up front how you will manage diary clashes. Ex H and I have a rule that we will not have a situation where we are both out of the country unless DC are with grandparents. Make your partner (or ex in my case) step up and take responsibility too.

Dont fall into the part time mummy trap. This usually ends up with you doing a full time workload for 3-4 days pay and not being taken seriously.

Tough it out at work if you have to and dont let yourself be sidelined. I was once shuffled out of my job in a merger whilst on MAT leave. My employer was astounded that I minded and honestly thought I would be happy to return to a less demanding role. Eventually I walked away to a competitor with 2 yrs salary.

Decide what you want out of life and be realistic about what will work for you. I have turned down 2 senior leadership jobs in the past 2 years as they wont fit in with my teenage DC. I would be paid more - but our lives wouldnt be happier. I am pushing 50 and jobs I would have jumped at in my thirties just dont appeal any more.

My other tip would be to replace alcohol with meditation and get as much sleep as you can. I am expert at kipping on trains and planes

Lots of good advice from elastamum. I never drank much at all - may be once a week but I gave it up in my 40s as it made me feel bad and now my children are older I try to get to bed at 10 every night which is when the teenagers go to bed (if not sleep in their case).

On this "I'm missing out on school dropoff a and pickups, homework, extracurricular activities etc. Also missing out on their little dramas and moments of joy, and I'm struggling with it. " I didn't feel I missed much. Children are often at their worst at 3pm or 4pm when they finish school and tired and someone else deals with the crying and hassles and feeds them. I felt I was lucky to miss it. When they were younger if I was working at home our nanny left at 6pm and I might well be in my home office keeping out of the way. I didn't feel there were things going on I wanted to be part of. There seems enough time with them at other times (for me - not everyone is the same). Their father and I spent a huge amount of time making sure homework and music practice was done and it is tiring to check on all that after 6pm or 7 when you're tired but much easier now they are teenagers. Mine currently aim to most homework in school breaks which is working well although I doubt the school think it is a good idea. They do any music and sport at school so that means they are late back one or two nights a week (a private school) which probably makes things easier. I also like them to do very little out of school as I think hours of lazing around not being organised is a lovely way to be eg at half term I don't think they had a single organised activity except lunch with their sister near her work in London and that was fine. That learning to occupy yourself and time just to stare at a ceiling is what I like them to have..

Ah it's 10 so bed.....

Kalidasa www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/women-in-stem-still-waiting-for-structural-change/2011447.article

Am really enjoying reading this thread. One area that hasn't been touched on much -your own social life. I read Karen Brady's autobiography a while ago and she basically said she was either working or spending time with her husband and she/ or children. She didn't have time to see her own friends separately and didn't feel the need. I currently manage one yoga class per week which is pretty sacred and maybe one night out with friends once a month but for can't do Tuesdays as that's Beaver night so I have to be back in time to pick up

No nanny or extra help here either other than an occasional babysitter.

I always think that women end up making sacrifices no matter what, but the sacrifices are different depending on the income of the household. I have seen it many time on mumsnet that some people think that the sacrifices of the working mother, and particular a high earning mother with high earning partner like me, has to be the children. In reality, the sacrifices are me-time (ha!), couple time (ha!), friends and extended family (ha ha!) because certainly the first 3.5 years of being parents our lives were work and children and nothing else. It was rather soul destroying and exhausting with non-sleeping dc2 plus quite lonely as well.

About 18 months ago, I decided I couldn't face another lonely and boring autumn/winter vegged out in front of the tv on a Friday and Saturday night too exhausted to talk to dh, so I got exhausted and started planning nights out. We love the theatre, seeing shows etc so we go once a month to the theatre, ballet, opera, gig etc. tickets are all bought up to 6 months in advance, our nanny is booked for baby sitting etc. We usually have dinner as well. It's made such a huge difference to us as a couple, we are happier and more like "us". I have made friends from mumsnet too and we have met up 4 times over the last year, which has been lovely because most of our friends are in same position as us with v young children and entertaining is exhausting so we don't do it often. However, as our kids are growing up and those of our friends it's easier to get together because the kids play together so my plan for this year is to spend more time with our friends who haven't abandoned us.

Eventually "me time", will happen. Eventually.

I agree novice and chem. no nannies here (in laws are 6h away and still work. And when they aren't working they are babysitting other grand kids who live near them, mine are 14h flight away!)... We've done the occasional babysitting swap with friends and interestingly enough a vast majority of our friends are also either foreign or live away from parents (so they are in the se and parents etc are in the north).

Now that the littler one is 3.5 we can now go out a bit more....

Yy novice - DH and I spend very little "not exhausted" time together.

My little ones are now 3 and 6 and I'm not sure if it will get harder in a way as they have evening activities too. Easy enough to go out and leave 2 children tucked up in bed at 7. Currently ds1 has Beavers 6-7 as only evening activity, in a few years will have ds1 at cubs and ds2 at Beavers at slightly different times although at least the same evening. Tea then gets pushed back to later so less couple time in evening. We do try and go out for a meal once a month or so and leave children with gps for the day when visiting but it is time with childless friends that is lost.

I think whether you are male or female and at home or out of work when you have children under 5 there is very little time for your hobbies unless you have a private income and a full time nanny and don't work I suppose. I don't think that really matters for a few years when the children are small.

Now they are older I have lots of time. I do have trouble getting to some of my choir rehearsals. I often pop out to the gym although that's usually for a quick steam/sauna rather than anything more energetic.

I think it's important to think about what you need to feel happy though. There is no point in having miserable parents who are martyrs. In a sense you might be benefiting your children by spending that hour on the thing you like to do. I remember with the first 3 children I would never have considered help at the weekends. 13 years later with the youngest children we found someone to look after the twin babies and then toddlers on Saturday and Sunday morning which sounds appalling to many but actually it was lovely for everyone. Their father or I migh have a bit of work to finish or be driving the 3 teenagers around or I might just want to sit in my office reading three newspapers and doing admin and there would be the twins with the enthusiastic lovely sixth former and sometimes her friend who would love 3 or 4 hours with sweet little babies giving 100% of her attention to them . Then in another phase I would take them to our gym which had a creche on a Saturday afternoon and they would have 2 hours doted on by others whilst I had a quick sauna and then slept on the bed by the sauna for an hour - nothing made me feel better than that sleep. I was a much less tired mother as a result. So I suppose my message is does what feels right for you and your family rather than what you think other people think you ought to do.

DH and I are quite ruthless about our "couple time" actually! We get a babysitter and go out for the evening at least once a fortnight and we leave DS with my mother-in-law for a night or two when she is in London (we did this just last weekend). We have been going out in the evening like this since he was three months (the age at which the agency would send someone!). And if he is unwell or has been unwell and can't go to the childminder (but isn't seriously ill) one of us works from home but we cough up for an emergency nanny so we can actually work. We have also been away for the weekend a couple of times, and last December we went on honeymoon for 10 days and left DS (then 12 months) with my MIL in Paris.

We do seem to make this more of a priority than a lot of couples at a similar stage. I think there are a few reasons for this - we hadn't been together long at all when I got pregnant (about 10 months!), and then I was so ill throughout pregnancy (in and out of hospital; in a wheelchair) that our relationship was basically 'on hold' for almost as long as we had been together before it happened; I then had bad PND. DH is also the child of a nasty and protracted divorce and I have had difficulties in the past forging a relationship so neither of us are at all complacent about working on our relationship. But mostly we both feel so much better for some time together, time to feel romantic and talk things through and enjoy each other, and I do really believe that almost the most important thing you can do for small children is raise them with a good model of happy, constructive adult relationships (either between their parents or whatever other adults are in their lives). But I appreciate that it is actually probably easier to leave a very small child/baby regularly than it is once they can start really protesting! Just this weekend DS obviously didn't want to be left with his grandmother again but DH and I SO needed it after a brutal few weeks that we did it anyway and felt much, much better for it.

Totally agree about hobbies, neither of us really have any though we do try to get some exercise. We also don't really go out with friends at all, though we socialise a little with other couples. I have tried to focus any new friendships on colleagues who are at a similar stage (i.e. at least thinking about starting a family) so that we can have coffee/lunch at work and there isn't the pressure to do evening stuff. We don't really do evening things at all unless we have to because DS still doesn't sleep through.

Interesting STEM article. I have increasing numbers of PhD students so have been thinking quite a lot about career advice, especially for women, recently. I am also making some v. big grant applications at the moment and have been struck by the fact that, for instance, there is no clear provision or guidance on what happens if, as PI for a large team working under me, I become pregnant during the project.

I think that realistically it is difficult for anyone with a full time job and snall children to make time for hobbies. i have always kept horses and when the DC were small I used to go weeks without riding as I simply didnt have the time. Now my DC are at school until 9pm I have evenings to myself (my DP is away in the week), so I have lots of time to pursue my own interests.

If you are a couple, I think it is important to consider whether you both get the same leisure time, as frequently the woman ends up working full time, doing the lions share of household admin and looking after the DC after work. I think LB makes a good point about not being a martyr. A stressed 'do it all' mother isnt good for anyone.

Continuing to enjoy the read, it is inspiring and encouraging and I'm picking up valuable advice. Sorry I have little to contribute (at this stage!) There are many consistent messages which is great.

Laura, when are you on Woman's Hour? Look forward to hearing you.

If I said I think I'd out myself, that's the trouble. If anyone wants to know then email m e tomorrow. They have not yet said when it will be on. It sounds like they record for an hour and then presumably cut it and put it into the programme on a day this week, would be my guess. Am with a national women's magazine editor and someone from the NCT so presumably they will want women to have 15 years of paid maternity leave and right to return one hour a week whilst their jobs are kept open to them. If so I will enjoy beating them into submission to my views.

Very good point elastamum . There are frequently threads where the mum is complaining that her dh still spends all Saturday on his bike / playing golf leaving her with the kids. Those dads are not generally sahds either! I have some friends with kids the same age but undoubtedly not as many as if I'd been to same toddler group week in week out. And I still want to keep in touch with friends who don't have kids (yet). We both see exercise as important for general health and stress relief. And we book time off work when the dc are at school / nursery. But there are only so many evenings in the week and I hope we can strike a balance where everyone gets to do activities.

15 years maternity leave indeed. I saw an article last week where someone from Mars was suggesting women should be able to have a 10 year career break and I thought why just women again and not helpful really.

I have a situation that's bothering me at the moment - but it's not related to anything on this thread (well, not really). If I may.....?

As you know, I'm an academic. I write research papers, with co-authors. There's one paper that was meant to be in before christmas, which was pushed to mid-Jan (before term starts) and now, we are staring March in the face.

I have done my bit, so has author no 2, but it's author no 3 (who incidentally is the 'lead author' - ie, the paper, if it gets published will be known as LeadAuthor, me and 2), who is 'dithering' (for want of a better word that's not sweary).

She says she's busy. Well, I am too. It's nearly 7.30pm and I'm at work because I have this deadline I need to meet for thursday. DH has picked up the kids and is doing dinner and bedtime tonight...and he will probably do it all this week. during the day, I have other things to do like meetings, teach... etc.

Basically, I'm trying to say that we are all bloody busy.

Can someone here tell me how I can tell her that she needs to submit it? Funny, I met her a week or so ago, and whilst chatting, she brought it up herself and said 'yes, I'll do it on friday' (I met her on wednesday or something). I didn't even bring it up. So she's VERY AWARE of the elephant in the room.

She says it's because she's 'not certain' about the ending... in which case, REWRITE IT THEN!! it wouldn't take more than 1 hour, tops. really.

help.

oh, and I'm not her manager or anything like that - if anything, up till recently when I got promoted, I was lower than her on the food chain.

Good points elastamum

Sorry Nk I haven't any real suggestions except perhaps to approach a more senior person to get their view - not for them to approach her but to get some tips. I'm sure this happens with co-written articles where some people procrastinate!

So... My baby arrived yesterday! Healthy eyc, but i'm a bit knackered! I'll be reading this thread but unlikely to contribute. Thanks all.

Congratulations Ice!

I'd love to have a hobby but I just have no time. Some time for myself really but then if it comes to not seeing my dcs at all I just don't feel like anything is worth it. When I work 14 hours days like today it becomes really hard to make time ... You go back to basics, food sleep shower and any extra time for the dcs. Dh gets a bit and I get ... Nothing.

On days like today I just want to say fuck it all and give up :(

softcookie I haven't even had my first (due June) and I'm wondering why I'm choosing to continue my career. Stupid long days at the moment, failing to even comprehend how it's all going to work - how there is going to be actually time for everything and how I'm going to be able to remain sane

worst thing is that at the moment it's an up hill battle pushing to be taken seriously with my expanding belly when everyone just wants to place me on mummy track now!

Congratulations ice!

As for my issue sorry I raised it. Should have used another forum. Right...back on thread now!

Congratulations ICE

Hang in there all you mums with young DC who are struggling to juggle everything, it does get easier. I remember when I was a young commercial director, with an poorly sleeping 18m DS1 and pregnant with DS2, I found it almost impossible to get through the day, so I used to go out to get a sandwich at lunch and drive to the nearest car park for a 20min nap! Today I got up just before 7am to have breakfast with the DC and have spent an hour this evening grooming the mud off the horses whilst DS2 did his prep.

Life changes, but it does get easier as the DC grow up. FWIW a lot of my SAHM friends are now regretting giving up work completely, as even with their Oxbridge degrees, they just cant get back in.

Congratulations